by Imran Khan
It was Goebbels who came up with the brilliant theory that if the government wanted people to follow its policy, it must first instil fear in them and then slap all dissenters with the unpatriotic card. Anyone, like me, who disagrees with the current indiscriminate military operation is accused of being a Taliban apologist.
Let me state categorically that I have been against military operations since the disaster of East Pakistan. From East Pakistan to the present Swat operation, the political mantra has always been “no option but the military”. Successive military operations in Balochistan have only added to the sufferings of the Baloch people which nurtured the seeds of their disillusionment with the Pakistani state.
When Bush decided to attack Afghanistan in less than a month after 9/11, I opposed this US policy at every forum including through the print and electronic media. Later, when he ordered the invasion of Iraq, I joined the nearly two million marchers in London opposing the Iraq war. It is noteworthy that at the time over 90% of Americans supported Bush’s Iraq invasion. Today, the overwhelming opinion in the US is that Iraq was a disaster. Moreover, the so-called “good war” in Afghanistan is being lost and its support dwindling.
It is not surprising to see the findings of a Rand Corporation study of the last 40 years of terrorist or asymmetric conflicts which reveal that only 7 % of these conflicts were resolved through military means.
When Musharraf buckled under US pressure and sent the Pakistan Army into Waziristan, I opposed it in Parliament and through the media. Speaking to the editors, Musharraf called me a “terrorist without a beard” – as if terrorism is the sole domain of bearded folk. When the Pakistan Army was sent into Waziristan there were no militant Taliban in Pakistan. As a result of the army operation the tribal social and political structure was destroyed throughout Fata and Malakand, and the vacuum has been filled by nine major militant Taliban groups and another 20 minor ones.
Again, at the time Musharraf commenced military action in Balochistan I opposed it and was accused of backing “anti-state” elements. Today, what was a movement for Baloch rights and autonomy within Pakistan has morphed into a Baloch independence movement. On opposing the Lal Masjid operation, some of the self-appointed “liberals” accused me of backing Islamic fundamentalists. But soon most of the indefatigable crusaders for human rights joined the critics of the Lal Masjid operation. More sobering is the fact that there were 60 suicide attacks in the aftermath of the slaughter of the Lal Masjid inmates and a steep rise in extremism. The Swat flare up is a direct consequence of the Lal Masjid operation.
While discussing my opposition to the current military operation, I must state where I stand politically and ideologically. My political inspiration is derived solely from Quaid-i-Azam, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the constitutionalist and democrat who believed in the rule of law above all else. My ideological moorings are firmly rooted in the political and spiritual dimensions of Allama Iqbal’s exposition of Islam which not only liberates society from bondage but also the human soul from material desires – releasing the enormous God-given human potential.
Above all I am an ardent follower of our Prophet’s (PBUH) example of inspiring the heart and the intellect rather than forcing ideas through the sword – a far cry from what has been happening in Swat in the name of Islam. So on no count can I possibly either support the un-Islamic acts such as beheadings, flogging of women, or forcing a way of life on others, nor am I an apologist for such people – I am only answerable on this count to my conscience and to my God.
As for my opposition to the Malakand military operation, first and foremost I believe that the military option, if it has to be used should always be as a last resort. Yet in Swat, the military operation was started barely two weeks after the Presidential signing of the Accord without alternative political strategies being given a chance. In my opinion, a national conference of all stakeholders including religious and political particularly those representing Swat should have been called prior to the operation. A delegation from such a conference should have been mandated to visit Swat and talk reason to the militants and report back to the parliament. In other words, every effort should have been made to make the militants abide by the peace deal that was backed by over 80% of the people of Swat and Pakistan according to an IRI survey. All along the political effort, a concerted effort should have been made to gain time to revive civil administration, police, and the paramilitary presence in Swat.
The diehard militants who consistently refused to adhere to peace agreement could have been isolated over time – a key counter-insurgency tactic followed by precise military action to decapacitate the leadership.
Assuming, there was no alternative to the military option, then while it was being planned, arrangements should have been made for the people who were going to be displaced. Sadly, and shamefully, the military operation began suddenly under increased US pressure, timed with Zardari’s US visit and with the least concern for the people of the area. It is our almost total subservience to US dictates that has been our Achilles heel.
The unfolding tragedy that is taking place in Swat is mind-boggling. To flush out a few thousand militant Taliban, more than 2 million people have been forced to live in misery in camps not fit for animals in civilized societies. With an equal number trapped in the war zone where they are running out of food and essential items. There are reports that dead bodies are being eaten by stray dogs in the streets of Mingora. Even more disturbing is the use of heavy artillery shelling and bombing from the air alongside helicopter gunships in areas with significant civilian population. Despite a heavy blackout, the news coming from the war zone tell tales of dozens if not hundreds of innocent civilian casualties.
Given the collapse of governance in the country, can we adequately look after so many displaced people – especially as summer temperatures soar? And for how long? The wheat crop has already been lost. If the IDPs cannot return within 2 months, the fruit cash crops will be at risk. Hence how will they sustain themselves for the coming year? Perhaps most dangerous is the possibility of IDPs anger and frustration that besides resulting in riots may also swell the ranks of the militants. For example, twins born in a refugee camp last Friday were named Fazlullah and Sufi Muhammad.
In such a situation, according to the army briefing given to the parliamentarians, there is every possibility of the Taliban resurfacing not just in Malakand Division but elsewhere in the country – possibly the urban centres. Can we afford further spread of terrorism in our cities given the precarious security and fragile economic situation? Military action breeds more militancy.
An army action which has already led to almost 2.5 million displaced countrymen cannot simply be accepted without questions. And, as if we do not already have a crisis, Zardari has declared that the war in Swat is merely the beginning of a wider war which is likely to engulf other parts of the country. It is time to take stock and stop ourselves from committing collective suicide. What needs to be done is the following:
* The military action unfortunately is already underway but there is no political, particularly governance, strategy which is guiding this operation. That should be a first priority so that the military action does not continue in a political vacuum.
* A clear governance and political strategy that allows the IDPs to return following a swift end to military operations is needed. This strategy should be focused on a system of speedy justice through the Nizam-e-Adl and effective civil administration. The writ of the state and the rule of law go together and this has to be ensured if violent challenges to state and government are to be avoided in the future.
* The military action, if at all, should have been extremely limited in scale and targeted with precision to minimise civilian casualties. Tragically this did not happen and my fear is that widespread use of area weapons would only result in greater civilian casualties swelling the ranks of the militants. So the military action needs to be revised to focus more on specific targeting and commando action.
Will any of this happen? Unfortunately in the present mode of the ruling elite, this does not seem likely. Instead, we will see increasing military action in the tribal areas as long as the US is in occupation of Afghanistan. Graham Fuller, the former CIA station chief in Kabul, writing in the International Herald Tribune, states that “only the withdrawal of US and Nato boots on the ground will begin to allow the process of near-frantic emotions to subside within Pakistan and for the region to start to cool down. Pakistan is well able to deal with its own Islamists and tribalists under normal circumstances.”
In other words, as long as US troops in Afghanistan are perceived to be an occupying force that is anti-Pushtun and anti-Islam, there will be no peace in this region. We are heading in a fatal direction unless we change our strategy and pull of this insane war that is sinking us into chaos. The longer this persists, the deeper we will find ourselves in this quagmire and we will confront a deeply divided society.
Finally, my heart bleeds for the poor soldier confronting his own people turned into misguided and brutalised militants and giving his life for a war wrought on him by a corrupt and decadent ruling elite that cannot see beyond the lure of American dollars that have become as much of a curse for this hapless nation as the criminal extremists in our very midst.
Beautiful letter….the sad part is our educated people are thinking like illiterates too rite now. The first line of the letter is a perfectly executed. People with lack of knowledge just love labeling people when they dont agree with them, like Imran Khan Pro-Taliban. I am a PTI supporter, no PTI person have I bet that supports Taliban. We condemn barbaric acts like slitting throats and killing of innocent civilians just like any other citizen.
Imran Khan always beleived that force should be the last resort and one should never use military against its own people and dialouge is the best way to solve solutions, even if it breaks, than you try again and again until you beleive its impossible. If someone can answer the following question I wud appreciate it.
1. Swati’s were living in there homes although they said “Taliban has taken over and they are killing innocent people.” Well if that was the case than why didnt they leave than? why did they leave when the operation started? that means it was the operation that has made them migrate, not Taliban.
2. Government took everyone in confidence when they signed the Nizam-e-Adal, why couldn’t they take everyone in confidence when they were about to do the operation?
3. Government says that there is no writ of the government in Swat and Taliban has challenged the writ of the state, than how come they dont start an operation against MQM in Karachi, in Gujarat after the CH’s, America after the Drones?
Imran Khan is absolutely right in this article.
People have a short memory. We must recollect that Taliban were our creation in partnership with the US and the Saudis. Pre 9/11 we were 100% supporting Taliban, even under Musharraf. Our foreign minister and our diplomatic representatives used to go to Washington and New York and everywhere else to plead and advocate their case and legitimacy. Afghanistan was totally secure for Pakistan in a strategic sense.
Unfortunately, our agencies and military never put in place an effective control mechanism whereby they could exercise meaningful influence over the top level Taliban leadership or even the second level of Taliban leaders. For example the kind of control and influence ability that the Americans have over the Pakistani military and political leadership of first and second level in Pakistan. We were immature ill know ledged and lacked the ability to create a relationship of that nature with the Taliban regime under Mullah Omer.
So when we under Musharraf unleashed the US Centcom military might from our soil against Taliban that resulted in colossal death and destruction over a period of seven years of now our former best friends and assets, we again failed to prepare ourselves from the consequences that we meet today. Further down the road, under pressure from the Americans we have joined in killing our own people in the name of war against terrorism. Pre 9/11 and for a while even post 9/11 we did not have any terrorism. Our military and civilian rulers behavior is insane. Now look at the most insane military strategy. We are in the process of displacing about five million people in order for two divisions of army with full support of the Air Force to chasing about five thousand so called Taliban.
The Current incredible mess has all the seeds of ending Pakistan as a state.
Imran Khan has repeatedly proved to be a person lacking political vision, acumen, and philosophy. He has been consistently wrong on issues that reflect his political immaturity. Fighting and eliminating elements that refuse to respect mutually binding rules and norms and openly defy state is the first step in promoting liberty and democracy in a nation. These criminals of Taliban have not only made mockery of our religion and country but also have severely damaged our religion in general and motherland in particular. This harm, arguably, is as close to irreparable as it gets. They have not only killed local population, police, army, and other law enforcement personnel in Swat but also occupied property of local residents. These criminal deserve no sympathy and they should not be negotiated until they surrender unconditionally to Pakistan army. The United States of America is not the enemy of Islam or Pakistan (can be proved logically, coherently, and factually) but Taliban including their apologists and sympathizers are arch nemesis of Islam and Pakistan. Security is precondition for building a democratic nation based on “all men are created equal,” “liberty,” and “rule of law.” Our dilemma is that we tend not to evaluate issues based on objective facts rather with opinions as our own facts. These ill-conceived perceptual stories become our prophecies. This leads to our behaviors that are consistent with term “self fulfilling prophecy.”
Comparing East Pakistan issue to current war against thugs of Taliban is intellectually dishonest at best. Only an apologist for Taliban can use that argument. This argument simply fails to recognize that Bengalis, legitimate residents of Bengal, were seeking their constitutional and democratic rights while Taliban are intruders, exploiters, and in case of Swat outsider tyrants. They have no legitimate claim over Swat while people like Lala Afzal are legitimate residents of Swat. May I respectfully ask of Mr. Khan whether his venom against constitutional democracies is hatred based on personal bitter experiences? It cannot be based on commitment to serve Pakistan and Islam. Or perhaps it could be simply failure to recognize, comprehend, and appreciate ground realities. I will leave that for him to decide. Let me just say categorically, Imran knows that by any universally accepted legal, ethical, and moral standard Iraq war is unjust and Afghan war is just. Invoking two unpopular names of Bush and Musharraf along with unpopular war of Iraq is an attempt to confuse masses by semantics and rhetoric. Musharraf simply used Taliban to prolong his illegitimate rule. The cancer of Taliban spread so rapidly that it requires a surgery now. Mr. Khan knows that. Unfortunately anger and bitterness has taken over sound judgment and rationality in his arguments.
Interestingly, Musharraf and Imran have two things in common. Both are rejected by masses but claim to have support of silent majority. One, attempts to hijack popular mandate through military might and the other uses circular arguments with popular buzzwords to confuse people. Conference of stakeholders resulting in a delegation to visit Swat should have been “the right” route by Mr. Khan. Let us assume that was the case. Let us assume that political and military leadership lacked vision to foresee the need. May I humbly ask how many attempts he made to take initiative? Imran, a visionary person, who foresaw “the right” but was either unwilling or incapable of taking this initiative, reflects poorly on his commitment to Pakistan. Isolation of diehard overtime and more time to implement agreement is his recommended route. This is another superfluous argument that defies any concern for realities. Media and so-called intellectuals (Imran, Hamid, and Ansar) convinced the nation that Sufi is moderate face and panacea for madness of Taliban. Now, we know the true face of this moderate. May I humbly ask, whether these individuals could not foresee it or were buying time for Taliban thugs to strengthen their hold over Swat?
Mr. Khan, please do not let your late mid-life crisis to disrupt or confuse our brave soldiers fighting the battle to save Pakistan. My only question to the confused is “what you stand for?” Anyone who stands for a nation that allows co-existence and mutually interdependent society will support our troops in fight against intolerant bigots. Can Mr. Khan clearly define term “rule of law” that is consistent with “pluralistic democratic society?” It may provide some useful insights.
Good article for all those who are supporting this military operation against people of malakand.
I suggest to read with open mind and with an open heart, leave your hatred & prejudice aside.
Uunfortunately all the rulers of the so called Islamic countries are not devils but the father of devils, who defy the truth. The great grandfathers of all the devils are the damn most corrupt “Pakistan Army’s Generals”. If the people do not rise against them, they deserve what they are getting.
I don’t know how long it will take for IK to understand the difference between swat operation and all other operations executed by army before. There is no comparison at all. All other were the real insurgencies and the insurgents were either fully or partially backed by the local people. Also the insurgencies were based on actual grievances e.g. in East pakistan and now in baluchistan which could or should never be tackled by any army operation. Swat operation is unique in a sense that only 5000 talibans had kept the whole population hostage by using brute force methods of intimidation and coercion i.e. creating terror in hearts by slitting throats for any opposing views, killing anybody on the excuse of defying taliban shariah, hanging bodies on poles on major intersections and digging bodies from graves and desecrating them etc. which was completely alien to the populace they were trying to control. It was just a matter of time before the local people would have revolted against talibans and army operation came just in time. Now there are credible reports that the local people have started spying against taliban and this will only increase with time (watch may 23, column kar). The only caveat being the issue of displaced people which was a necessary evil to tackle a bigger evil. IK should at least listen to his mentors Haroon-ur-Rashid and mujib-ur-rehman shami to get some advice before showing his ignorance to such an important issue instead of addressing it with deep down emotions and superficial understanding. He has again showed his immaturity in dealing with important issues the same way he did by supporting referendum or boycotting elections.
bechari-awan deserve because of their thinking. What is surprising that even animals fight to protect the future of their children but bechari-awam will lay their lives to secure the future of the children of corrupt politicians and the damn “Most corrupt Pakistan Army”, but never come out to fight for the future of their own children. So the bechari-awam need no sympathy. Let those 180 million go to hell, where they belong. If they rise up they can turn the same hell to “Heaven”.
Good article and i agree with IK and support him. However i also expect complete honesty from him.
He wasn’t always all out against US invasion of Afghanistan or Musharraf’s 180 degree turn on Afghan policy. Musharraf’s referendum took place well after US invasion and he was still supporting him.
But i appreciate his point of view on current situation. and agree with him.
Thank you Imran Khan for taking such a stand, especially at a time when protecting the sanctity of human life is being labeled as pro-taliban. Down with Taliban, and down with excessive and indiscriminate use of military power to deal with militants.
Zindabad Imran Bhai
Murdabad America
Murdabad Zardari
Murdabad Army action against Pakistanis
Pakistan Zindabad.
Mr. Imran Khan, you stand on the wrong side of the line!!
It is obvious that Mr. Khan has made it a matter of ego not to change his stance in face of facts which oppose his stance. Since I have given all hope with his person to make any objective leadership of this nation I won’t waste time to write how he is wrong. Mr. Khan claims to be a student of Iqbal but apparently he chose to ignore such verses of Iqbal:
Teri namaz be-saroor Tera Imam be-hazoor
Aisy namaz se guzar Aisay Imam se guzar
Gala to daba dya tera madrasay ne
Sada kaisay aye La Ilaha Illallah
Disappointing Mr. Khan. Members of PTI should not blindly support like all other “kaarkuns” of other parties. Instead they should question him, challenge his thoughts and prove they are enlightened democratic and pluralistic party. Don’t become another Jamatia party. We already have enough of them.
@freemason
“Members of PTI should not blindly support like all other “kaarkuns” of other parties.”
I fully agree with you!
“Instead they should question him, challenge his thoughts and prove they are enlightened democratic and pluralistic party.”
Still great
In the beginning you wrote:
“It is obvious that Mr. Khan has made it a matter of ego not to change his stance in face of facts which oppose his stance.”
and
“I won’t waste time to write how he is wrong. ”
How do you want to change the stance of others when you are not willing to share your views or “facts”? If you have good arguments then I don’t believe it would be a waste of time, but if it is opposition for the sake of opposition, then it will certainly be a waste of time. Now it is your decision to elaborate or refrain from that
“Let me state categorically that I have been against military operations since the disaster of East Pakistan.” >>>> Taliban Khan moron opposes operation against Taliban savages now, why didn’t he oppose mly coup d’tat against an elected govt. in 1999 ?
“My political inspiration is derived solely from Quaid-i-Azam, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the constitutionalist and democrat who believed in the rule of law above all else. ”
Wow what about Imposition of Shariah ?
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100558393&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20090121
And what ab’t Quaid’s famous 11th August 1947’s address to the constituent assembly of Pakistan
“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed – that has nothing to do with the business of the State.”
And
“We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State. ”
And
“Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.”
“When the Pakistan Army was sent into Waziristan there were no militant Taliban in Pakistan. ” >>>>>> WTF were there only non-militant Talibans there ?
@every muslim
Asslam o lakum
I have been supporter of Ik on many instances but on this occasion he is certainly on the wrong side.
I put following arguments in favor of my comment.
1. Why sufi declared almost 98% of people of Pakistan as non muslims because lot of them have voted in elections and many have cases filed in different courts.
2. Why talibans raised their weapons and captured other nearby areas in the name of propagation of islma.
3. Why talibans cut throats of Pakistani commandos.
4. Why talibans snatched personel properties of the people specially vehicles of NGOs.
5. Why talibans kidnapped many persons in the region
6. Why talibans shot a person who denied of giving his daughter in the marriage of a talib.
7. Why sufi was unable to disarm these talibans and why talibans not honoured the order of their leader sufi of putting the arms down and leaving the captured area.
Believe me my friends I was very happy on sanction of swat peace deal but what talibans did in reponse resulted in current situation.
Now we should help swat refugees and allow them to enter any part of the Pakistan and no body should create hurdles in their ways like altaf kalia and hum nava are doing.
I know you are altaf kalia or one of his goons is in the forum with strange name whose duty is to defend only altafization and bhanization.
Salute to Great Imran Khan.
He is my hope and Inshallah he will kick these corrupt dakoos out.
After watching satuday’s mere mutabiq I know varma and tafoo has his goons in this forum.
Pakistan Zindabad
@ Cogito-Ergo-Sum
Good quotations.
However, you did not explain how Shariah is against Quaid’s vision and guidance to the nation.
I would appreciate if you share your thoughts on differences between a Shariah State and a Modern State.
“Above all I am an ardent follower of our Prophet’s (PBUH) example of inspiring the heart and the intellect rather than forcing ideas through the sword – a far cry from what has been happening in Swat in the name of Islam. So on no count can I possibly either support the un-Islamic acts such as beheadings, flogging of women, or forcing a way of life on others” >>>>
If Taliban Khan is against Talibans then
1- Why don’t he condemn Taliban savages ?
2- Has IK arrange a single Press conference to condemn in-human acts of Taliban savages ?
3- Has IK ever led a rally against in-human terrorist activities of Taliban savages ?
@ Najam Syed
“However, you did not explain how Shariah is against Quaid’s vision and guidance to the nation.” >>>> Quaid was against a theorcatic state ruled by either Mullahs like Munawwar Hassan or Clean-Shave Moulvis like IK and his dream was a modern secular muslim state (not an islamic state) , what you need is to just read his address to the constituent assembly on 11th August 1947.
@fareed
“I know you are altaf kalia or one of his goons is in the forum with strange name whose duty is to defend only altafization and bhanization.” >>>> Would really appreciate if you come up with some rational arguments instead of some BS !
@Cogito-Ergo-Sum
Thanks mate. But what do you exactly mean by “modern secular muslim state”. And you did not explain the difference between Shariah State and Modern State.
For your easy reference below is the definition of Theocracy(from wikipedia).
Note the 2nd para and your thoughts on what Pakistan is these days. Theocracy or Secular?
Theocracy is a form of government in which a god or deity is recognized as the state’s supreme civil ruler,[1] or in a broader sense, a form of government in which a state is governed by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided.[2] For believers, theocracy is a form of government in which divine power governs an earthly human state, either in a personal incarnation or, more often, via religious institutional representatives (i.e., a church), replacing or dominating civil government.[3] Theocratic governments enact theonomic laws.
Theocracy should be distinguished from other secular forms of government that have a state religion, or are merely influenced by theological or moral concepts, and monarchies held “By the Grace of God”.
@ImranHamid
“1. Why sufi declared almost 98% of people of Pakistan as non muslims because lot of them have voted in elections and many have cases filed in different courts.”
He did criticize Sufi for that foolish statement! In fact IK has never supported Taliban. It is a leftist propaganda. In fact he is in favor of different kind of approach to get rid of the Taliban menace. I have written about it before to bhola. Look here and downwards:
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/16/visitors-views-news-week-3-may-2009/#comment-213682
@Cogito
Can you explain why MQM leaders as well as supporters like you never have CONDEMNED kalias statement against the creation of Pakistan in his motherland India?
Do you condemn the Kalia statement?
Here is a link to his Katta speach:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMSVYTgFIPA
@Cogito-Ergo-Sum
This is what you have learnt from Islam calling others by names?
For Anti Imran and MQM lovers .
Saturday, May 23, 2009
Naeemul Haque
The extraordinary fluidity in the Swat situation has led to widespread confusion about the government policy and its effectiveness. The pervasive ad-hocism amongst our national decision makers has led to flip-flop policies which have already proven to be disastrous.
The National Assembly was asked to endorse the Nizam-e-Adl but was not consulted about the army action. Mr Zardari has managed to thwart the constitution and ignore the parliament thanks to a pliant prime minister, by agreeing to switch policy under intense American pressure.
This pressure has been so great that it has prevented the previous and the current governments from pursuing a realistic solution to the whole regional crisis encompassing Pakistan, Afghanistan and the Taliban.
Today the whole region is as far away from peace and that elusive prosperity as it can be, thanks to an unclear and directionless American policy. Amongst the political leadership of Pakistan those in power or sharing power have failed to define a road map to achieve these objectives and remain subservient to American whims.
Amongst the very few who have repeatedly called for a comprehensive solution to this growing crisis Imran Khan has stood out as a bold and independent leader reflecting the will of the majority of the people of Pakistan.
According to the most recent IRI opinion poll 72 per cent of Pakistanis support a peace deal with the Taliban, 52 per cent are against the army action in Swat and 61 per cent are against co-operating with the US in its “war on terror”.
There are many who disagree with Imran Khan and many who don’t understand him. And there are many more who don’t understand the complexity of the situation but are quick to pass judgement.
Shafqat Mahmood’s article published in this newspaper recently is a fine example of this. Shafqat has tried his luck in politics, ‘grabbed many opportunities’, was unable to sustain them and was quick to drop out preferring the life of an armchair observer.
His failure to understand Imran Khan’s philosophy is understandable. Imran Khan is a man in touch with the people; people like Shafqat are not. Imran Khan believes strongly in a sovereign and self reliant Pakistan and stands for a fundamental change in the way our country is governed.
This goes against the thinking of many political pundits who cannot see Pakistan surviving without American support.
Imran Khan has consistently believed that the current crisis being faced by us has many dimensions and cannot be solved through army action. We have seen the separation of East Pakistan and alienation of Baluchistan which were caused by our attempts to resolve political issues through military means.
Military option should only be used as a last resort when all other options have failed, Imran believes. In case of the Nizam-e-Adl agreement, Imran supported it as it was carried out by a democratically elected provincial government and endorsed by the National Assembly. But then Imran was also quick to criticise Sufi Mohammad for violating the agreement and rejecting the constitution. His criticism of Sufi Mohammad was harsher than any other political leader of the country.
For the last two years Imran has been the leading proponent of the supremacy of the constitution (1973 version), rule of law and independence of judiciary. His commitment to these causes remains unparalleled and even in the context of the Swat situation he firmly believes that adherence to the constitution and rule of law should remain the guiding principles.
Shafqat Mahmood has accused Imran Khan of trying to take on Altaf Hussain of the MQM unprepared. If Shafqat had bothered to check the facts he would have found out that the Scotland Yard has been seeking information and cooperation from Pakistan’s Ministry of Interior for the last few years without any luck as the MQM has remained part of the Musharraf and PPP governments.
Shafqat’s disdain is based on lack of knowledge and a confused frustration. Shafqat laments Imran’s failure to indulge in opportunism. Sheer opportunism may be a virtue to Shafqat and the likes but not to Imran.
A month before 9/11, a Taliban delegation was in the US meeting officials and oil companies with a view to getting them engaged in rebuilding Afghanistan. Their “world view” if any, was an inclusive one rather than an exclusive one. So they were not really the outcasts as Shafqat would like to believe.
Imran rejects the Taliban version of orthodox Islam and believes in the progressive view of Islam as preached by Quaid-e-Azam and Iqbal. Imran also values the rich cultural and religious heritage of Islam and how it has evolved in the sub-continent and West Asia.
It is in this perspective that he has focussed on finding indigenous solutions to our problems. This has never been understood by people like Shafqat who find it difficult to see beyond the western way of thinking.
Imran strongly believes that our region is engulfed in flames because of the ill-advised American invasion and subjugation of Afghanistan. He wrote in a letter to President Obama earlier this year that America must seek to change its role from an occupier to a partner.
Throughout history the Afghans have never accepted foreign domination and the American guns are not going to change that. The Afghan Taliban perceive this conflict as a battle to liberate their homeland. The Afghan Taliban are not anti Pakistan and are not involved in the anti-state activities of the numerous Pakistani “Taliban” groups . It is very important to differentiate between the two.
Imran believes that those who seek to destabilise the state of Pakistan must be dealt with severely, but those who seek changes within the constitutional framework must be heard. He believes that we as a nation have not been able to evolve a national agenda and it is this very lack of agenda that is making us more and more subservient to the American policy.
Imran Khan and his party want a comprehensive solution to this critical issue based on the following formula:
An international conference of all stakeholders in Afghanistan to prepare a road map for the departure of American and NATO forces from Afghanistan, their replacement by UN peacekeeping forces from Islamic countries, holding of free and fair elections in Afghanistan under UN supervision with full participation of all political forces of the country including the Taliban.
As the Afghan Taliban are given an opportunity to become part of the mainstream in their country, Imran believes, millions of their supporters and sympathisers in Pakistan would also be similarly inclined and can be brought into the Pakistani political framework through an intensified dialogue designed to address their real issues.
Imran’s vision for Pakistan is based on sovereignty, dignity, opportunity and prosperity and as the latest IRI poll testifies he is already the second most popular leader in the country.
His message is already getting through. Shafqat Mahmood please stand up.
The writer is a member of the central executive committee of Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf. Email: naeemul_ haque@yahoo.com
Source: The News
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=178986
http://insaf.pk/News/tabid/60/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/2311/Imran-Khan-and-the-Taliban-By-Naeem-ul-Haque.aspx
@ Shirk
What led you to think that I’m Altaf-supporter ?
Wow, what a pathetic logic if I’m criticising IK-moron then I must be either Altaf-supporter or Zardari’s party member !
Now, instead of finding refuge in Altaf bashing please come up with the answers to my questions !
@admin and other regular posters to this forum:
Is there a limit on the length of the post? My post is quite long (longer that IK’s article I am afraid) and I am afraid it will be wasted if I post it here only to be deleted or rejected.
@Cogito
Do you CONDEMN Altaf for his speech in India or not?
Do you condemn MQM for their criminal silence on this issue or not?
Your silence is maybe an acceptance of your “dear” leaders opinion
@freemason
“Is there a limit on the length of the post? My post is quite long (longer that IK’s article I am afraid) and I am afraid it will be wasted if I post it here only to be deleted or rejected.”
Sorry for interrupting (I am not the @dm!n), but I think posts should be too long. Many people will skip it, but it is (off course) your choice.
@Shirk
YES, I do condemn Altaf or MQM for their wrong-doings and policies !
Now, will you please answer my following questions
1- Why doesn’t IK condemn Taliban savages without any ifs and buts ?
2- Has IK ever arranged a single Press conference to condemn in-human acts of Taliban savages ? Date and Place, please.
3- Has IK ever led a rally against in-human terrorist activities of Taliban savages ? Date and Place, please.
@Mogito-Qrgo-Mum, Al(taf)Call and other mqmer
Your main objective here on this forum is just only to criticize, at any cost, Munawar Hassan and Imran Khan, NOTHING ELSE. So keep continue your “assigned” job from 90 and kali mata.
@Shirkuh
So Don’t waste energies on these ignor.nt kali mata’s follower.
Understand these mqmers are planted from 90 and Mustafa Aziz abadi and Admin has been approached by mqm sector incharge for giving free roaming facility to all mqmerssssss.
Imran was against all the Military operations since East Pakistan.
He was also against Bush invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.
So apparently he is very peace loving and non violent by nature as he says.
In his peace loving saga, he is silent on militant invasion of Afghanistan to fight an American Jihad in the name of Islam.
Perhaps I am wrong
Militant Operation as long as it suits you is not as violent as Military Operation.
v.v.v. nice article by the great IMRAN KHAN. I think IK is only the person who save this country from land mafia(mqm)and (zardari&co).
must watch this beautifull link.
http://insaf.pk/Media/Videos/tabid/62/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/2318/PTI-Documentary-Nijat-Dahinda.aspx
PTI zindabad
PAKISTAN paindabad.
The incoherency of Mr. Khan’s article makes it difficult to refute his ideas. For example Mr. Khan has mentioned everything from East Pakistan, to Waziristan, to Malakand, to Iraq, to Afghanistan, to Balochistan, to economy, to bad governance, to IDPs!! Not all these issues are related and where they are related Mr. Khan has not articulated the connection well for his views to be discussed. I will therefore refute the crux of the ideas that Mr. Khan holds. I will restrain myself to the current Malakand operation.
I will comment on his ideas in the following sequence:
1- Comment on Mr. Khan’s stance that the point of last resort had not been reached to start a military operation.
2- Comment on Mr. Khan’s stance that the military operations are a flawed strategy.
3- Poor IDP management
1- The point of “last resort had not been reached”
Mr. Khan thinks that we should have negotiated with the rebels/Talibans/criminals/mujahideen/miscreants/”Insaaf ke talabgaaraan” (whatever suits you but I will use the term “rebels”) and that there was room for negotiations. Mr. Khan being a politician should know that states do not negotiate with people who carry a gun to support their argument whatever their stance is. Besides how much more loss of life, property and national esteem is Mr. Khan willing to give in before he would support a military option. Is it not enough that the rebels have destroyed 200 schools, 6 bridges, the only ski resort of the country, the homes of local politicians and government property including police stations and other government offices? Is there still room for negotiations when we know for a fact that the rebels have been involved in killing scores of local people most brutally, extortions, kidnapping for ransom, forcefully taking daughters of the local populace to marry their “mujahideen”? Is it still not enough when the rebels have dug graves to punish people? Does Mr. Khan hope to talk sense into such barbarians!! Will Mr. Khan go to Afzal Khan Lala and tell him that its not enough to lose a couple of children, grand children, friends and relatives and survive a few life attempts?? Will somebody stand up to tell Mr. Khan that those who demand speedy and cheap justice do not engage in UNJUSTIFIED acts of killing, extorting, destroying schools, banning polio vaccination, flogging girls, kidnapping for ransom, destroying all those tourist resorts from which local populace derives its bread, destroying the meager civil infrastructure. Criminals engage in such practice and when they do the force of law shall apply on them. Mr. Khan thinks that we should continue to negotiate with such people while they continue to expand their influence from Swat to Upper & Lower Dir, Shangla, Kalam and Buner. Does Mr. Khan want the geographical space of this problem to expand more and become totally unmanageable?? If Mr. Khan had a little sense of geography then he would have known that next to Buner is Swabi and getting the war into Swabi is disastrous for Swabi holds key military strategic sites and civilian sites such as Tarbela and GIK Institute. Any threat to the military strategic sites is a pretext for a US operation to capture Pakistan’s assets and the already weak infrastructure of Pakistan can under no circumstances afford any loss to Tarbela. The loss of a single electricity pylon in that region means going from semi-darkness to total darkness. Can we risk that??
The Nizam-e-Adl has been imposed in that region but now the Qibla-o-Kaaba Mufti-e-Azam Aali Martabat Peer-e-Tareeqat Mujahid-e-Islam Mujaddid-e-Zamana Sufi Muhammed Rehmatullah Aley wants judges of his own accord, wants the government to do “mushawrat” with him on the appointment of any judge and until then peace will not be ensured. Additionally he thinks that the current legal constitutional political system of Pakistan is kufr and therefore the government must “do more” to be rewarded with peace in the region!! Bravo!! Did Mr. Khan negotiate with Mr. Zardari when the latter was insisting on his own hand picked judges? Imagine every other maulvi, politician, businessman from Khyber to Karachi begins to demand that the appointment of judges should be done after consulting with him!! Every semblance of an organized society will evaporate and what will result is something we call total chaos!! Beginning to negotiate on such matters is a step towards dismantling of the state.
Can anyone give an example of any existing organized civilized state which allows masked men brandishing automatic weapons and is there any state which negotiates with such elements? Nay!! For the responsibility and the authority of the state is to curb all such elements using any necessary force to keep the state civil and at peace.
2- Comment on Mr. Khan’s idea that military operations are a flawed strategy and they never work.
I agree with Mr. Khan that military option is not the only option. But, it is an option nonetheless and it should not be taken off the table. Criticizing the tactics of an operation is one thing and
Different issues have different backgrounds, different geographies, different cultures etc. and the use of one blanket formula will not work everywhere. There are examples from the past where military options did not work and negotiations settled the issues e.g. South African civil war, Rhodesian (Zimbabwe) insurgency and Irish problem. The story of East Pakistan is a different scenario and a comparison of East Pakistan with current situation is not productive. However, current insurgencies are different and abundant examples also exist where military is the only option and it succeeds or it works better. You must understand that insurgencies are by nature complex and dirty wars and they generally have a higher civilian toll and take more time. Such are the characteristics of such wars. Avoiding civilian casualties in any war is impossible. War means violence not an exchange of chocolates and flowers and therefore is accompanied by “blood, toil and tears”.
The latest example of success of application of military force to crush an insurgency is Sri Lanka. It took 37 years to root out this insurgency. Persistence of Sri Lankan military, political leadership and the nation paid off and they have succeeded. Sri Lanka is smaller than Pakistan in all aspects and they have given us a lesson if we have the courage to grow out of our egos and understand things objectively. Sri Lanka used all instruments of war including air force and navy to defeat the insurgents. Other insurgencies which are (were) militarily being fought are:
• Turkish fight against Kurdish insurgency. It has taken Turkey more than two decades and a loss of more than 30,000 lives but Turkish nation refuses to budge and does not adopt a defeatist mentality portrayed by Mr. Khan. Turkey is using all instruments of war including air force and artillery to fight this war.
• Iran faces the same Kurdish insurgency and refuses to budge.
• Philippines has crushed the Muslim insurgency with force.
• Thailand has crushed the Muslim insurgency with force.
• China is facing two insurgencies. One in Tibet and the other in Xingiang. China is not negotiating on any front and the whole nation stands united to curb the militancy.
• Sudan is fighting a major insurgency in Darfur and in spite of huge international pressure is standing fast with the application of force to destroy the rebels. Sudan is also heavily using air power in this insurgency.
• India has faced and is facing multiple insurgencies and has remained consistent in its stance that it will not negotiate with anyone outside its constitutional framework no matter what and it has paid off. India today is a much more stable society (not a perfect society) because of its stiff insistence on laws and constitution and in its use of force measure or all-out against rebels and insurgents. India crushed Sikh insurgency through the use of force even plunging tanks into Golden Temple in Operation Blue Star. What ensued were bloody riots across India resulting in the killing of Indra Gandhi but the establishment and the military refused to budge and rigidly stood by their principals. Today Indian Punjab is at peace. India is not negotiating with Naxalite, Nagaland or (from India’s point of view) Kashmiri rebels.
• United States has faced 238 insurgencies in its history. Never did the US government negotiate with any insurgent entity setting a principle in stone that negotiations will never be done under the threat of force. Anyone willing to be heard must abide by the law and use all legal peaceful means to voice his/her opinion or demands. Today the US is a stable society.
• Egypt has fought a sustained insurgency against Islamist terrorist and has never accepted the principal of the use of force. Democracy or no democracy, Egypt’s districts do not present the gory scenes of murder and violence.
The resilience of the above mentioned nations in warding off criminals, rebels and extremists holds lessons for us. If all these nations can bravely ward-off the miscreants within their boundaries and become stable societies, why can’t we?? The things that distinguish these nations from us is a clear focus, understanding of your own principles, strong attachment to laws, persistence and ability to sustain losses on the way. Fortunately for such nations they do not have their share of IKs for such people only spread confusion, destroy focus and put a dent in the persistence. Confusion is a contagious disease and right now what Mr. Khan is doing is spreading confusion. At this stage confusion will be our worst enemy.
Mr. Khan is also strongly opposed to the tactics being used by the military and claims that such use of force to fight insurgencies is unheard. The type of weapon and the strategy to use is the prerogative of the commander/soldier on the ground. A blogger sitting hundreds of miles away or a journalist or politician not trained in military arts can comment and criticize but the decision of a professional soldier on the ground on the front line cannot be challenged. I have quoted different examples above where heavy force is deployed flush out the insurgencies. Heavy force is required when insurgents occupy and hold areas, establish dug in positions and command and control sites.
3- Comment on Mr. Khan’s criticism of IDP management
I would partially agree with Mr. Khan’s criticism. First, we must understand that in an abnormal situation difficulties are bound to arise. Mr. Khan is not only criticizing the management of IDPs but also distorting the cause of their becoming IDPs. Mr. Khan blames the government and the military as the cause of the IDPs not the rebels. Criticism of the management issues should be done but not in a way lower the morale of the people. Afghan refugees lived in camps for 15 years but fought resiliently and in Indian Kashmir thousands of Pundits have turned into IDPs but that has not lowered the morale of the Indian government to fight on. Additionally Mr. Khan’s approach to IDP management is idealistic and flawed. IDPs should be confined to limited camps but Mr. Khan is politicizing the issue by urging the government to let them spread to Sind.
Final words: It’s a national tragedy and a national war. In the middle of any military campaign the worst thing you can do is to start haggling, get confused and show hesitation. Now when we have begun, take it to completion. Mr. Khan please show some objectivity. Its not about politics anymore.
@Jawad Raja, @bechari-awaam, @freemason, @Cognito and @imranhamid
Well said all. I don’t think I need to add to your argument.
Imran was a great cricketer and did Pakistan proud. He has also proved himself in philanthropy because of SKMT. However, he is a foolish politician and should stick to philanthropy, an area where he can do much more good for Pakistan.
The man who stood up to fight his first election without even registering himself to vote (and without ever having voted in any election in Pakistan before that), and who was stupid enough to give lectures against VIP culture in Pakistan from the VIP lounge of Lahore airport, should never, and in my opinion, will never lead Pakistan.
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/08/imran-khans-letter-to-gordon-brown/
18 days today……..score remains the same IK1 Altaf Kalia 0
IK needs to show some action rather than words all the time……………it seems after the ‘letter to British PM’ he has done nothing………so was there anything sincere or just another cheap exercise of political point scoring ??
despite adm!n giving the prominence to the ‘famous letter’ by putting on front page!
i love it when ppl quote iqbal to trash religion without realizing what iqbal really means – lol for all those here are some from javab-e-shikwa, may be iqbal was a taliban
kis qadar tum par giraaN subh ki baidaree hai
hum se kab pyar hai haan neend tumhain pyari hai
tabaa-e-azad par qaid-e-ramadan bhareee hai
tumhee keh do yehi aain-e-vafadari hai
qaum mazhab se hai mazhab jo nahi tum bhi nahi
jazb-e-baham jo nahi mehfil-e-anjum bhi nahi
kaun hai tark-e-aain-e-rasool-e-muKhtaar
muslehat waqt ki hai kis ke amal ka maiyaar
kis ki aankhoon main samaya hai shuaar-e-aghyaar
hogai kis ki nigah taraz-e-salf se baizaar
qalab maiN sooz nahi rooh maiN ehsaas nahi
kuch bhi paighaam-e-mohammad(pbuh) ka tumko paas nahi
ja ke hotey hain masjid main saf ‘aaraa to ghareeb
zehmat-e-roza jo kartey hain gavara to ghareeb
naam laita hai agar koi humara to ghareeb
pardaa rakhta hai koi tumhara to ghareeb
umraa nasha-e-daulat maiN ghafil hum se
zinda hai millat-e-baizaa ghurbaa ke dum se
shoor hai ho gaey dunya se musalmaan nabood
hum yeh kehtey hain ke thai bhi kaheen musalmaan maujood
wazey main tum ho nasaraa(christians) tu tamaddun main yahood(jews)
yeh musalmaan hain jinhain dekh ke sharmain yahood
yoon to syed bhi ho mirza bhi ho afghan bhi ho
tum sabhi kuch ho batao to musalmaan bhi ho
Some elements in Taliban are no doubt insane and are foreign funded. They should be hanged publicly. But my humble request for the people who are in favor of military operation (not action) against them is, please for God sake ask common people in NWFP and analyze their thinking. You would find out their point of view and their hatred for Pakistan army. They are confused and are not able to differentiate between PAK army which they think is backed up by US, and Taliban which are also backed up by foreign agencies. Most of the Pakhtoon people think that ISI is an organization completely backed up by US. In my opinion it’s because all the US supply lines pass through Pakistan under the security of Pak army, Pakistani intelligence missing people saga, not trailing a single culprit of terrorism in Pakistani courts. e.g. Head’s of hundreds of suicide attackers found but no follow-ups by either the government or the intelligence agencies, history of army like the 1971 tragedy and Kargil debacle etc
I can still remember the incidence of Nawab Akbar Bugti’s death. The perception in common person’s mind was that he was a feudal and a cruel Sardar. After his death, he became the hero of many. Same has happened in the Lal masjid tragedy. Just imagine, God forbid if Maulana Sufi Muhammad die in this operation, a man who has massive following amongst Pakhtoon’s and his power show was at least better than Bugti, what would happen next? In my opinion, God forbid the 30 years old moment for Shariat will turn into moment for independence.
The biggest goal should be winning the hearts of the people first and then doing anything else. I agree with Imran Khan that army operations are not commendable solutions especially in a country like ours where there is no concept of disaster management solution.
I respect Imran khan, he is no doubt a patriot someone who can stand up for what he thinks is right. I believe he can and will play an important role in shaping the future of Pakistan but I strongly disagree with his stand on current military operation.
I feel Khan Saheb is stuck in the past and is either failing or refusing to admit that ground realities have changed. He rightly insists that use of power is the last option, but fails to see that its already too late to use that last option. His proposed options other than use of power, would make sense in Pakistan of 1990s or earlier but not in current situation. He is suggesting that we can vaccinate a mad dog and will get results. Khan saheb doesnt matter how painful it may sound you have to kill the mad dog.
Whether we like it or not, use of force has become inevitable even if Qazi Iaamran Khan is the PM. Timing is wrong but not because its too early but because its already too late. IDPs and collateral damage is a grave concern and it could have been prevented not by delaying the operation but by early sue of force. By spending more time on talks, we would further aggravate the problem of IDPs and collateral damage. We will be conducting operations in wider and wider, more heavily populated areas. People of Swat had at least Mardan and Swabi camps to go to, where would people of Mardan and Swabi and rest of the NWFP would go if operation was to involve these areas as well.
IK is constantly associating Taliban movement with American occupation of Afghanistan. This could have been the case a few years ago but faces, aims and objectives of Taliban have changed. Kahan saheb;s insistence on associating this movement to American occupation is beyond comprehension. In fact Pakistani Taliban themselves have damaged their struggle against occupation more than anybody else. Killing barbers and destroying schools has not frightened Americans at all!!. Khan saheb is giving Taliban an undue credit.
Imran Khan is spot on!
Good work!
@Malek
“IK needs to show some action rather than words all the time……………it seems after the ‘letter to British PM’ he has done nothing………so was there anything sincere or just another cheap exercise of political point scoring ??”
You are right, Malek. He should go to UK and jump in to a police uniform. Bring along his “fan club” members and go and arrest Kalia from “9-zero” in Farangistan. Then he needs to smuggle him out of UK like the Turkish did to Abdulla Ocalan. Heeyyyy stop. That was from an African country. It must be difficult to do that from UK. Maybe he should smuggle him out of UK in a cargo ship.
Seriously, don’t you think it is very difficult task since both the Pakistani government and UK government are protecting him. AZ is in bed with him and the farangi wants to use him like toilet paper. One day he will be in Pakistan, inshallah. I hope NS/PML-N will be cooperative in that regard. Isn’t that the best scenario for now or do you think PML-N will start protecting too ? I hope not.
@Bhola
“He rightly insists that use of power is the last option, but fails to see that its already too late to use that last option.”
As mentioned earlier, I think the operation must continue, but maybe it would be wise to start some planning. Ad hoc-ism will only lead to disasters just like previous decisions against Balochis and MQM. We have 2.4 million IDP’s. God knows how many unregistered IDP’s we have. We need to bring on board the local people!!!!
^^
Btw: I don’t think PTI would oppose the above strategy (my opinion).
@razaafzal
Neither Iqbal nor those who quote Iqbal tried to “trash religion”. Instead they tried to trash those who use and distort religion to achieve their own misguided objectives. That was Iqbal’s point and that is the point of those who quoted Iqbal. You better read comments carefully and maintain that distinction.
@shahid1984
The people are confused because Zardari & Co. do not have the brains to explain to them the true situation and Imran Khan & Co. are adding fuel to fire by spreading more confusion instead of raising their morale and guiding them properly. Down with both of them.
@bhola
dear brother i m totally agree with his opinion because this war have’nt END. BROTHER in early times i m in the favour of this military opration but now i m totally agaist this BECAUSE THIS WAR IS NON-STOP\END.
this is an American war. Indian agents were involved in destroying school etc. IK said in last one press conference that we should want to give power to local tribes against these agents. as we do before in kuram agenssee.
Plz realize this fact.
must watch this beautiful link.
http://insaf.pk/Media/Videos/tabid/62/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/2318/PTI-Documentary-Nijat-Dahinda.aspx
PTI zindabad.
PAKISTAN paindabad.
@ freemason
You are spot on !
Down with Zardari & Co.
Down with Taliban Khan & Hypocrites Mullahs of JI and JUI !
@razaafzaal
“i love it when ppl quote iqbal to trash religion without realizing what iqbal really means – lol for all those here are some from javab-e-shikwa, may be iqbal was a taliban ”
LOL
Ooooh, yaaar. Don’t fall in the opposite trench
Why IK always talks about himself ?
Where is PTI standing BTW ?
Oooops IK = PTI
@shirkuh
As I said previously, there is no question about the planning a future strategy not only for Swat and FATA but also about Karachi, and Balochistan. MQM is a gang of thugs are are crossing all limits.
We all know that current Gov will not act against MQM unless they step on their Dum which is quite possible.
Imran said…….. “When the Pakistan Army was sent into Waziristan there were no militant Taliban in Pakistan.”
Wrong….. In fact the first suicide attack in Pakistan was in May 2002 on French engineeres who were assisting Pakistan Navy to build Agosta submarine. The initial troops movement to Tribal belt was in July 2002.
@naughtypakistani
First suicide bombing was committed in 1996 at Egyptian embassy in Islamabad !
IK is moron whose mission is to misguide and confuse poor Pakistanis !
famous saying in urdu when billi attacks kabootar he closes his eyes and see no billi. Imran hashis eyes closed and funny he drops the name of iqbal and jinnah. Can someone explain to me a complete idiot what does jinnah and iqbal have in common with the taliban? All you pti tc experts show some respect to the pak army and the soldiers dying in swat. I have not seen one statment yet.
you must differentiate btw Talibans……One who are fighting for Pakistan and others who
are being funded & Supported by CIA and RAW…..
@shirkuh
the point was that IK did that for political point scoring and cheap publicity which is a shame….wish he was sincere in his actions………if he sincere and different from other opportunist politicians ………………..now there seems to be little difference between Altaf Kalia, IK and Maulana Fazlu
@Malek
“now there seems to be little difference between Altaf Kalia, IK and Maulana Fazlu”
I don’t think any sane person would put him in that league regardless of political affiliation..
Apart from that I don’t believe he did for “cheap” political mileage. If it was an easy task other parties including PML-N and PPP would have done it a long time ago. unfortunately they (PML-N/PPP) want to have cordial relations with a terrorist outfit instead. IMO that is CHEAP political mileage. Take the easy way out.
Off course you are entitled to have your view
@Malek
Do you think a future PML-N government would cooperate with the UK authorities or will they put a stamp “political mileage” on IK/PTI’s request to give access to Pakistanis witnesses and proofs within Pakistan?
“Oooops IK = PTI ”
Isn’t Bhutto= PPP
Altaf= MQM
@Bhola
“We all know that current Gov will not act against MQM unless they step on their Dum which is quite possible.”
I agree, they are in bed with these criminals. How can we expect or even dream of any such action unless MQM gets more insane than they are already. I only see it happen if they went after some of their big guns, but these thugs are not that stup!d. They know how to get some mileage out of Piplyas and other cooperative parties.
Honestly: Do you think the strategy towards MQM will change when/if PMl-N will be in power circles or will they also visit nine-zero and Kalia from London to make deals?
@ freemason
Imran Khan is a one man show Right? So, I think people should not consider his stand and carry on the operation. As, moment of Pakistan was also not supported by everyone but still we achieved it.
So, Imran Khan doesn’t matter that much. If army can deliver and can literally remove all the Taliban’s then every one will praise it, but Imran Khan’s point seems logical if you go in the history of army operations.
@shirkuh
- ‘there seems to be little difference between Altaf Kalia, IK and Maulana Fazlu……….I don’t think any sane person would put him in that league regardless of political affiliation…..’
do u need examples?…here are very few….
- all three were ardent supporters and fans of Dictator Mush!
- all three are very keen to become PM of Pakistan…despite no public roots!
- all three will do anything to gain political mileage – no matter how cheap!
- all three are champions of speech………and ZERO in action/practice!
- all three were offered to be made PM by Dictator….and all of them allegedly refused!
- all three conspired with establishment to overthrow an elected govt
I dont think a sane person would have made a categoric statement despite knowing the above facts?
- as regards your qst re ‘Do you think a future PML-N government would cooperate with the UK authorities’
May be best to put this qst to PMLN………….however judging from their recent performance particularly running the affairs of govt in Punjab and action against their own sitting MNA whatever ‘action’ they will take will be in better interests of the nation and more than hollow political point scoring
altaf qasai ka fikar o falsfa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoOqnyurrXU
There seems to be a general consensus among people who are not part of the IK fan club that he is a foolish politician, confused and what not. Someone mentioned that he claims to have support of the silent majority ala Mush which ofcourse is a figment of his own imagination.
The thing i dont get it is that why these people waste their time in watching all his programs, reading all his articles/letters and rant on about what their perception of the man is (which i dare say has not and will not change whatever he does) with arguments, counter arguments and the works!
Sure enough, some of the arguments make good sense but at times the anti-IK clan goes so far that it goes beyond logic and sounds silly at best. Having said that, we have the likes of some who sit on the other side of the fence with exactly the same mindset. Whatever IK says, they are up with their only hope slogans.
I guess if they do feel he is a waste of space, what exactly does wasting their energies towards him make them then? If i felt there is someone who is nothing but a media propelled bunch of bull$h!t with little or no popular support based on his mind boggling views, Im sure i would have better things to do than to waste my time talking about him.
The most interesting argument from the critics runs along the lines of IK not being in the parliament, has no political standing, lacks political wisdom, one man show and most of all, no support.Then IK is blamed for misleading the nation and strengthening the taliban by supporting them.
The question is, how can someone who gathered less than 1% votes in the last elections he contested have so much influence to ‘’strengthen” the taliban and mislead the entire nation? Surely if he could do all of that, the nation would have responded to his call of boycott on Feb 18.
The list is too long to mention but arguments such as these actually work in favour of IK. You can get people to think once you stay within certain boundaries. Once an all out attack is launched, logics are set aside and anyone looking from the outside will fail to see sense in your arguments as all they’ll see is bias and unconditional hatred.
@Malek
Not the way to go, bro. I think you are angry and want to proven right on something which is mostly quite ridiculous!
- all three were ardent supporters and fans of Dictator Mush!
That was true. he learned from it just like PML-N when Zia MADE them.
- all three are very keen to become PM of Pakistan…despite no public roots!
What is strange about that (desire to be PM)?
What do you mean buy “NO public roots….” He must have some.
- all three will do anything to gain political mileage – no matter how cheap!
Once again. It is only your mantra. Please get back to your normal self
- all three are champions of speech………and ZERO in action/practice!
This is the GEM from you. To support or be in agreement with PTI aside. Your claim is very disappointing. How can you say that PTI has ZERO practice? Didn’t he do well in his constituency (Mianwali). Maybe you don’t recognize his social work either?
- all three were offered to be made PM by Dictator….and all of them allegedly refused!
Is that a negative parameter?
- all three conspired with establishment to overthrow an elected govt.
This one is genuine, and I think he has acknowledged that too. Many politicians don’t do it, but he did it.
Please stay calm, Malek. Use your good brain. I mean it and I am NOT being sarcastic!
Another column for great leader.
http://daily.urdupoint.com/columnWriterColumns.php?intro=0&column_id=7221&writer_id=3&page=1&page1=1&date1=2009-05-25
@rafay79
Bravo!
Imran Khan is one man, show too. Whatever action is taken of “kismat” of Pakistan is entirely by this one, man who is called zardari. What is the performance of this big “baraat” of “dakus, choors and lootreys, sitting in parliment today? Big zero. Important thing is what is your performance and what you have delivered ( not personal benefits or party benefits) to people of Pakistan in form of visible benefits rest is all irrelivant. For your information, we haven’t tried Imran Khan yet in power politics of Pakistan, to rest we have given them powers several times, but still as of today, their performance is hopeless and incompetent as it was in their earlier terms.
@shirkuh
i note from your responses that you have admitted that IK had been engaged in all those things (leaving aside IK’s comparison with Altaf Kalia and Fazlu for a moment) this proves at least one thing that he is not really any saint in politics as made out by his supporters……… he is therefore as opportunist as any other politician …………and hence the public would not be fooled with any hollow slogans and political point scoring!
as regards mianwali constituency……..you mean thanks to Mush and Gen Zamir the architect of 2002 elections ….in which IK and Allama Padri both won amongst many others
finally re social work ….there is no doubt about the good work in that field….and i hope IK will finally make this statement on TV (may be in Hamid Mir show) ……’that entering in politics was a mistake….mein qaum se muafi mangta hoon….and i will now stick to social work’………………my vote will be for IK then in social welfare work….May Allah give him hadait and he can start working on building hospitals and schools…something he is good at
@shahid1984
I have given a history of military operations above. Kindly read that and then analyze Imran’s arguments.
A good article by Ayaz Amir. The article goes against Imran’s ideas. Unfortunately while admin will put IK’s article on the forehead of the website, articles countering his ideas will not be posted.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/editorial_detail.asp?id=178803
Swat and East Pakistan operation are two different things. East Pakistan were asking for their rights and so do the Balochistan but these beasts are killing innocent people, behaving them mercilessly therefore these so called swat Taliban’s should be eliminated at all costs.
@freemason
Thanks buddy for comprehensively knocking down Imran’s and other mullahs’s argument of negotiations with militants…I really appreciate your efforts.
@rafay79
“…There seems to be a general consensus among people who are not part of the IK fan club that he is a foolish politician, confused and what not. Someone mentioned that he claims to have support of the silent majority ala Mush which ofcourse is a figment of his own imagination…”
is this again, “you are with us or against us” kind of mentality. Just for you, although I strongly disagree with the policies of IK/PTI regarding swat operation, I still am a paid member of the party. But if you think PTI is nothing but an “IK fan club” then I am in agreement with your assertion.
“..The thing i dont get it is that why these people waste their time in watching all his programs, reading all his articles/letters and rant on about what their perception of the man is (which i dare say has not and will not change whatever he does) with arguments, counter arguments and the works!..”
I understand your weakness in understanding simple facts which I guess runs up to the leadership of the party. In your opinion, if someone doesn’t like any political leader, he should stop following his articles, political talk shows etc. Going to the same logic, you shouldn’t be watching/reading any program discussing PPP, PMLN etc. if you are against their policies.
@Malek
Meray bhai, as I said before I am strongly against IK’ s stance on military operation. But this forum is now discussing IK’s politics in general. I disagree with you on some points.
I know IK’s fans see him as more than what he really is and lots of their expectations from him could only be a wishful thinking. But in their defense, they are not the only ones who think like that about their parties and leaders. You can see people defending the most shameful acts of their parties and leaders.
I am not sure why you think IK should bow out. I mean our politics is full of thugs, morons, thick, shameless people, in each and every party. So if they are all participating in politics, why not an educated person like IK. Who is at least clear of any financial corruption, even if you doubt his other qualities. I am not a PTI member, but to be honest I cant see why IK should leave politics. he hasnt committed any crime worse than other politicians.
As for as his performance in elections is concerned you are right he hasnt performed at all. Support for him is limited to a certain circle of people and he has no strong support at grass root level. But again is he the only politician with limited success in elections? No. Our politics is full of POLITICIANS who have struggled to win their own seats and were still recognized even at national level. Fazlu has only 3 seats in national assembly and I am sure IK can do at least as much as Fazlu for example and probably better.
So you may or may not agree with his politics, wishing for his exit from politics is a bit too harsh
@bechari-awam
It wasnt a with us or against us thing. All im saying is that there’s one group for which IK can do no wrong and then there’s the other for which he is a nutjob. My post does mention both of them if you read it again.
The question is about wasting your time and energy when your bias towards or against someone overtakes your ability to think rationally. No matter what he says, these select group of people will continue making comments along the same lines.
Just look at JawadRaza. Third comment from the top. All he has done is copied and pasted something from another post. Then we have spspti, who probably has a bunch of lines full of hope and ‘must watch’ links in a word document for copying/pasting.
How many of us go ‘ he is right when he says X but i fail to understand his position on Y’? Apparently ur one of them when you mention swat. For the majority, its either all good or all crap.
It would be kinda nice if people took a moment to think about where the other person is coming from before they start commenting. For some odd reason, IK takes that ability away from most of us. Having said that, so does MQM.
As for the PPP/PMLN bit, the criteria i mention doesnt fit them.
Regards
“Phool ki patti se kut sakta he heeray ka jigr
Mard-e-nadaan pe kalam-e-narmo nazuk be asar”
So IK will fail miserable to mobilise this “half dead” nation.
Looking at the evolution of political parties in our short history, what are the signs or hope that we will have a leader who can lead, a statesman who can deliver or a ruler who can govern? I would love to be proven wrong.
Whether you are for or against IK, but the fact is IK is more intellectually rich than any of our politicians. Most of them are embarrasing.He shows comand on the subject and on his inspiration whether it be on religion, Quaid, Iqbal or international history or events. I never can imagine Zardari, Nawaz or for that matter other politicians to exhibit same level of intellectual enrichment.
As for his opinion on Swat action. I can understand people who disagree with him on that issue. I myself support military action based on what I know so far, yet when he says otherwise, it does make me wonder what does he see that I dont. No other politician in Pakistan have made me think like this. I gave him this credit. If we can have Zardari for our President, I dont see there be a problem in experimenting IK to lead the country. i am looking forward for that day.
I can see there are a lot of jahel people here. do you people know why the army took action in East Pakistan? it’s because bengali traitors were going on a killing and raping rampage against non-bengalis and this was happening all because of the Awami League.
I think all of you are worthless people. none of you know what really happened in East Pakistan, nor do you want to know because you don’t care. my mother and her family lived in East Pakistan and I can tell you the exact opposite happened of whatever these indian rumors and propaganda of the Pakistan Army’s actions.
Bengalis were KILLING all non-Bengalis, Punjabis, Pashtuns, Biharis, Urdu-speaking people. They didn’t bother finding out whether someone was punjabi or pashtun, they just dumped them all into the “urdu-speaking” category. They killed so many non-Bengalis and they were raping so many women. whatever the army did when the time did come for an army operation was a reaction to whatever the Bengalis did.
My mother can remember her childhood, she was not allowed to leave her house because Bengalis were kidnapping and raping urdu-speaking girls. when the Pakistani Army finally was ordered to do something, her family was saved.
So stop following blindy, this is just a bunch of indian and bengali propaganda, nothing more. there is no way a few thousand troops would be able to rape “300,ooo” women or kill “3,000,000″ people. This is just a bunch of bullsh!t the indians have fed the Bengalis. it is the Bengalis who were involved in genocide, you can see the proof for yourself, look at what happened to the Biharis.
I THINK SOME OF YOU PEOPLE ARE TRAITORS, INDIANS RATS, YOU DON’T CARE WHAT HAPPENED TO NON-BENGALIS IN EAST PAKISTAN!!! you don’t even care what happened to your own Punjabi brethren, how they were killed. you people don’t even care what happened to your own Punjabi sisters, how they were raped like toys. I think you people are traitors, you will only criticize the Pakistani army although they are “angels” compared to the INDIAN ARMY WHICH RAPES OUR OWN KASHMIRI WOMEN AND ASSAMESE WOMEN.
for some of you, one day the army launches an operation into your house and eliminates you. Pakistan can do much better without your stupidity and ignorance.
Here is something I took off a bihari website, please READ. I typed parts of it in capslock since I know a few people are too stupid to read and understand.
“The sheaves of eye-witness accounts, documented in this book, prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the MASSACRE OF WEST PAKISTANIS, BIHARIS AND other NON-BENGALIS in East Pakistan had BEGUN LONG BEFORE THE PAKISTANI ARMY TOOK PUNITIVE ACTION AGAINST THE REBELS LATE IN THE NIGHT OF MARCH 25, 1971.
It is also crystal clear that the AWAMI LEAGUE’S terror machine WAS THE INITIATOR and EXECUTOR OF THE GENOCIDE AGAINST THE NON_BENGALI’s which EXTERMINATED AT LEAST HALF A MILLION of them in less than two months of horror and trauma.
Many witnesses have opined that the federal Government ACTED A BIT TOO LATE against the insurgents. The initial success of the federal military action is proved by the fact that in barely 30 days, the Pakistan Army, with a combat strength of 38,717 officers and men in East Pakistan, had squelched the Awami League’s March-April, 1971, rebellion all over the province.” (Statelesspeopleinbangladesh . net )
( Please READ this http://www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net/blood_tears.php )
why do you guys put all of your hopes into one person, be they Nawaz Sharif or Imran Khan? Pakistani people need to learn that politicians are crooked two-face liars, they are hypocrites by nature. Pakistan people MUST BELIEVE IN THEMSELVES, because Pakistani people CAN ONLY HELP THEMSELVES. for goodness sakes, stop depending on others to change the country like magic, and start depending on yourselves.
if you obsessing over personalities, you will become like the jahel voters in rural sindh who will vote for waderas. you will vote for Bhutto family, Zardari, Bilawal Bhutto and family.
Imran Khan has this acute electile dysfunction resulting in him shooting his load before it is time
Nawaz Sharif does not suffer from premature escalation
IK tore away his nomination papers and imagined himself another Bhutto at the UN. haha…Would be hilarious if it wasn’t so pathetic.
Imran Khan: Wrong on Elections. Wrong on Taliban.
WELDONE SIR, hamari jan hamari AANN IMRAN KHAN IMRAN KHAN, PAKISTAN KI SHAAN IMRAN KHAN.
SIR YOU ARE ONLY HOPE FOR PAKISTAN, BRAVE AND WISE, I SALUTE YOU SIR, MAY ALLAH KEEP U SAFE AND GRANT U OPPORTUNATY TO SERVE PAKISTAN.
@ malik hayat
“you must differentiate btw Talibans……One who are fighting for Pakistan and others who
are being funded & Supported by CIA and RAW…..” >>>>> LOLzzzzz Why can’t Pissed Tafreeh-e-Imran (PTI) distribute two types of badges & hats in Talibans
1- Pro Pakistan Talibans
2- Pro US+India
I would also like Taliban Khan to go Swat and become Ameer-ul-Momineen of Pro Pakistan Talibans and fight against Pro US+India Talibans
@pak_78626
“WELDONE SIR, hamari jan hamari AANN IMRAN KHAN IMRAN KHAN, PAKISTAN KI SHAAN IMRAN KHAN.” >>>> Impressed with your Brown Sb’s farangi language naaaa
I can only repeat again Allama ka Shaheen aur Jinnah ka Baita IMRAN KHAN.
@ Prosencephalon
“If we can have Zardari for our President, I dont see there be a problem in experimenting IK to lead the country. i am looking forward for that day.” >>>>> I also want to become PM, and I am looking forward for that day
Bhai have some mercy on poor Pakistani nation
Time will prove that IK is right as he was right after Wazirstan Operation, as he was right after Pak Govt extended his support to U.S. He always proved right and that are the qualities of a visionary leader. Go ahead IK we are with you. you guys should know that where 1.5 billion US$ civilian aid is going, just to have people support on the war of terror as publicly accepted by US. Only $ are speaking now. But truth will prevail in the long run. Long Live PTI. I suggest the supporter of this untimely military operation to watch Ms.Ghazala Minallah’s comments in a tv programme that we are helping Talibans by creating the chaos of IDPs. We only can pray to avoid a human crises. Moreover we should correct the facts that people are displaced due to operation and not by the Talibans. Our elite class intentially deteriorate the situation to seek $. And guys note my words. US & allies next target will be South PUnjab after Wazirstan and then so on… They r eying on our nukes and therefore puting our country into a civil war to fulfill the neocon agenda and we r shamelessly becoming their tool due to our sponsored elite.
Assalmoalaikum Readers,
Imran is right. Military action is not the solution in SWAT, not in the long run at least any way.I admire Imran Khan and his moral stance on many issues, his guts to accept his mistakes and his will to change himself for the better.
SWAT issue is like disseminated cancer which realistically can not be treated with surgery but can be kept from spreading further by getting local bodies involved.Unfortunately the peace talk have been going on for the last two years but failed in the end, this time due to Munafiqun who have infiltrated Taliban and now look like them, get their funding from India and Israel.
What is SWAT solution, how can we punish “real terrorists” in SWAT.Obviously bombs don’y discriminate betweeen Taliban and terrorist, or between civilan property.These terrorists are some what like KHWARIJ of MAdinah who murdered Usman raziAllah anha, and later tried to paralyze Hazrat Ali’s governance.Hazrat Ali did not use force against these Khwaraj because he couldn;t tell munafiqun from muslimin and avoided muslim blood shed to his best.
I agree that Army has every right to punish those who have killed commandos after peace treaty was signed, but there is no easy answer.I am confused really.
You can not leave mad dogs alone ,they will spread their disease, so focussed action against terrorists is justified according to Islamic Sharia.But how can you kill a cancer which has spread to the whole body(SWAT). i think radiation therapy and chemo is the answer in this case rather than surgery.But Allah alone know the best. Use of force will be used to brain wash people of SWAT against Pakistan in the long run using their displacement as a tool.
Now that the action has already started we can all work together to minimize the damage, and prevent this cancer from spreading further. Remeber we are a Nation in the Making. I see an amazing future for Pakistan because we are going to succeed this trial and emerge as winner…we Pakistanis are spirited people, and it stems from La Illaha ILLALLAH.
Blessed to be muslim
Very well said and I fully agree to your point of view. Thanks again.
@Prosencephalon
“If we can have Zardari for our President, I dont see there be a problem in experimenting IK to lead the country. i am looking forward for that day.” >>>>> I also want to become PM, and I am looking forward for that day
Bhai have some mercy on poor Pakistani nation
@Khawar Khan
“Allama ka Shaheen ”
Taliban Khan should go to Swat or Fata and reside on mountains’ clifs
Tuu Shaheen Hay Baseara Kar
Paharoon Kee Chatanoon Par
“Jinnah ka Baita IMRAN KHAN”
I don’t know if Quaid had an illegitimate child i.e. Imran Khan
@pak_78626
“WELDONE SIR, hamari jan hamari AANN IMRAN KHAN IMRAN KHAN, PAKISTAN KI SHAAN IMRAN KHAN.” >>>> Impressed with your Brown Sb’s farangi language naaaa
@ malik hayat
“you must differentiate btw Talibans……One who are fighting for Pakistan and others who
are being funded & Supported by CIA and RAW…..” >>>>> LOLzzzzz Why can’t Pissed Tafreeh-e-Imran (PTI) distribute two types of badges & hats in Talibans
1- Pro Pakistan Talibans
2- Pro US+India Talibans
I would also like Taliban Khan to go Swat and become Ameer-ul-Momineen of Pro Pakistan Talibans and fight against Pro US+India Talibans
Once again Imran Taliban Khan got it wring!!
What dreamworld does Imran Taliban Khan?
Is he running his political campaign on writing ill-informed letters?
What solution does Imran Taliban Khan have for Taliban animals that are cutting throats of our soldiers and general public as well?
Should Army remain silent over the brutal killing of its soldiers?
Should Govt remain silent over losing its writ in lots of NWFP areas and FATA as well?
Should we allow Taliban animals to continue burning schools?
Should we allow Taliban animals to blow up mosques and shrines?
Should we allow Taliban animals to continue their suicide bombing?
Should we allow Taliban animals to run their reign of terror in Swat?
Should we allow Taliban animals to cross NWFP border and enter into Punjab?
Should we allow Taliban animals to spread their ideology of hatred and intolerance?
Should we allow Taliban animals to punish people in city centres? (Hanging, executing and flogging)
Should we allow Taliban animals to enforce their brand of Shariat on people?
Should we allow Taliban animals mal-treat women? (Forcing them not leave home)
Imran Taliban Khan is still on “Learners plates of Political driving and does not want to pass his L plate test”. His comments clearly show political immaturity, lacks judgement and understanding from bitter ground realities of this burning issue. Army action is justified and despite Govt’s repeated sincere efforts Taliban animals neither disarmed nor kept their promises. No Army wants to attack their own people but these Taliban animals (and their foreign mercenaries) are responsible for ongoing chaos and civil unrest in Swat and throughout NWFP. The cultural and social Collaboration of Arabs Jihadis and Pathans have been a big diaster for Pakistan with serious consequences yet to come.
Imran Taliban Khan has grave concerns (we all have for the plight of these refugees and want to see them return to their homes as soon as possible) for refugees but what about 3 million plus Afghan refugees who are still living in Pakistan illegally. We were more than over-enthusiast and trigger happy over Afghan war (Fasad) of 1980’s and even opened our borders for Afghan refugees and feverishly participated in that Fasad with the help of American dollar/arms, (no one then objected US dollars and US support), Saudi money and local mercenaries (Fasadis mostly from Jamat Gher Islami)) from all over the world without checking their resume. USA was our greatest friend during Afghan Fasad and now abusing USA is a fashion and everybody including IK wants to get on anti- American bandwagon. IK blames we are fighting US war; whose war were we fighting then during Afghan Fasad of 1980’s?
Imran Taliban Khan’s letter writing is a good way of correspondence with his Internet IK Fan Club members but real people (majority) of Pakistan hardly pay any attention to his letter writing and pro-Taliban statements/comments. That is the reason why PTI’s support level is not even in double digit and chances are slim that his PTI pressure group will even win one seat in next election.
@Malek
“i note from your responses that you have admitted that IK had been engaged in all those things”
ALL those…I ahev to correct you. Let’s say some of them. Why? Because unlike you I consider IK as human being whop can commit mistakes. I believe in a different way to support a party. The benefit of the party will upheld most if it has critical voter bank. People who want results and not cult worship. I am not saying that this menace doesn’t exist in PTI. It exists in all parties more or less. Maybe some the worst are PPP and MQM, but after all I believe both PML-N and PTI has a considerable number of critical voters. I don’t see any problem debating with you as long as it is factual and not on extreme terms. If we are able to be factual and fair we can derive a lot from our leaders. If we act like zombies we will get nowhere except defending our positions brainlessly. You pose questions and I answer to the best of my knowledge and belief. I on’t consider myself as worshipper of any personality. If I feel that somebody is doing the right thing then I will support him/her regardless of party affiliation. Many piplyas made some point scoring in the pre-election time. Everyone knows what happened post-election. They turned their backs and didn’t want to fulfill their promises. After a lot of pressure and loss of money they unwillingly gave up, but shamelessly claimed “victory”. NS had a dubious role in this process. Your blind support will claim that he did the right thing, but the matter of fact is that he undemocratically took decisions without the knowledge of his partners alongside the other Trojan Horse called Aitezaz Ahsen. It was their damn duty to bring every participating leader on board before taking ANY significant decision as to call off the march. He acts like king and wants to be a king. A genuine leader he will never become. He is all too pedestrian to be a leader.Another mind boggling event was how both NS and SS could roam around freely while the genuine opposition had to play hide and seek with the civilian dictatorship. Why does NS/SS and their heir HS act like that? Do they know it is (again) their turn next we have a new government? I am convinced that they know it and it will be like that because of the nature of Pakistanis in regard to short time memory and wide spread corrupt nature. Most people think they can only climb upwards if they know somebody (nepotism) or if they can bribe someone. This is what both PML-N and PPP has given us. They are both a GHQ creating and has more or less a lot in common though I personally consider PML-N as the lesser evil, but they are certainly NOT the solution for Pakistan. In a way you have shown their current and past nature. You sway away ehen I have a direct question about what PML-N wants in regard to f.ex. MQM. I’ll give it a shot again, and hope that you can give a satisfying answer this time. Please set aside your emotions and give clear and fair answer. I am not asking you to support another party. I am asking you to use your influence – how insignificant it may be – to change the course in the direction you think is correct. If you let them make all the decision and regard them as gods, then they will start to think like gods. The same goes each and every other leader including IK.
S mentioned Ik is not a saint and commits mistakes “unlike” NS/SS/HS. The below remarks are LOW BLOWS (very unlike the old Malek) and I still feel that they have everything to do with anger rather than rational thought. I am “impressed”
“(leaving aside IK’s comparison with Altaf Kalia and Fazlu for a moment)”
Social work or not, your recognition or not. What IK has managed is somewhat significant. You and others might be correct that he is a bad politician, he will never be PM, will never have a significant role in the parliament, but nobody can say that he has not been sincere and nobody can deny that he made many pee in their pants. The crooks hate him, the established parties hate him. They will attack him politically (mostly through lifafas), but almost never for his social work unless they want to commit “suicide”……almost. This is what I see happening in different columns. A genuine hate campaign has been started for the sake of a political “assassination”…..congratulations!
BTW: Will there be a statement from NS/SS liek “Where I stand”? Or will they continue their double policy. What is your stand on this, Malek?
^^
I am in moderation (reply to @Malek).
Thanks Idi @min
@mbokhari
You are an admirer of NS, and maybe you will be proven right, but are you not overlooking some facts?
“Imran Khan: Wrong on Elections. Wrong on Taliban.”
Elections:
Didn’t NS support the boycot and then turned his back?
Taliban:
What was/is the stand of PML-N? Do you have some information? F.ex. what does KSR say?
Btw: Didn’t NS support the decision of no contact with MQM and then turned his back or rather his brother made the relationship cordial for a (maybe) future setup?
Jitnay mun utni baateN!
I am reeling from the blast of this amazing response to Imran’s Khan’s explanation of his stance on a matter of life and death for our nation. Would that other political leaders followed his lead and spoke truthfully! Until they do we shan’t know the truth nor the wheeling and dealing that goes on behind the scenes.
In my view Imran Khan’s stubborn opposition to the army’s action in Swat has its flaws but then my opinion is based on the limited information that is available in the national press. There is a very simple solution to work towards a consensus for the nation as a whole: lift the cloak of secrecy, and debate the issues in the National Assembly. Our puppet of a president is unlikely to receive a nod from his American manipulators and the decisions will continue to be made in secret. The hypocritical Mr O, Bush’s successor, sings the praises of a sham democracy in Pakistan but he will not allow us to have genuine democracy because it will almost certainly harm his twisted view of “America’s security” (read ‘American economic interests’ – whoever in his right mind will consider a backward Afghanistan a threat to America’s security?).
Those “liberal fascists” who have waxed eloquent in this thread should stop knocking Imran Khan who has every right in a genuine democracy to expound whatever views he cares to hold. We need a political debate in the corridors of power, not a slanging match in an internet website.
I quote from my posts last week:
“The biggest casualty in all this is the TRUTH. Nothing is what it seems. We won’t know the truth until we have the courage to dissociate ourselves from the Americans and learn to think for ourselves – and take decisions that WE think are right for us.”
“Amidst the crazy power games that the Americans are playing I do not know what is true and what is false.
The one truth I do know is that throughout the world today – especially in the USA – governments are busy creating new truths through manipulation and by deliberately disseminating lies. Thus, a new reality in Iraq was created by deceiving the whole world about Weapons of Mass Destruction and invading Iraq on a false pretext. Manipulation of truth as a political tool is now widespread, though the Americans are the true ‘artists’ of this genre.”
“The sham democracy we have is designed to give power to shady characters such as our current president and his cronies. We MUST demand democracy within political parties. When did the PPP, and other political parties, last have an election for leadership of the party? Upon the assassination of Ms Bhutto, her widower just declared himself and his son to be the new leaders of the party. Did anyone protest?”
“The sad truth is that we have got the leaders that we deserve. Let us bring about a change in ourselves. We need to know the moral values that we have to have as Muslims (let us read the Qur’an in translation, not just as an Arabic mantra to be recited at weddings, funerals and other sundry occasions).”
@Malek
Do you also have good connections to the high ups at Pkpolitics?
MannuN ban karwa ditta ve? ….Just kidding
“Your comment is awaiting moderation.”
since 9:32
The time is almost 2 pm now
@shirkuh
i see your comments have been released now………..i dont have any connections with high-ups…. but perhaps i am a bit civil!! ……..errr dont call him names like Id!-min!!! (just kidding) although the name suits GM!
now regarding your long awaited ‘modernised’ post
- ‘It was their d@mn duty to bring every participating leader on board before taking ANY significant decision as to call off the march’……………..I agree with you but the important point is ’significant decisions with significant political leaders’ not get bogged down with consulting opportunists who were their for ‘political point scoring’…….
You need to be unbiased to understand this………when the lawyer leadership and CJP himself accepted the decision then anything more would have been political point scoring and de-railing a very fragile democracy.
- ‘NS had a dubious role in this process’ ….. Infact NS made this all happen with his courage and by putting his life on risk………2 years of lawyers struggle was converted into great victory for pakistan becasue of NS’s intelligent leadership……..if he was an ‘opportunist’ he could have toppled PPP govt and claimed the seat of PM without doing much more …….but perhaps getting 100’s of innocent Pakistanies killed in the process
- ‘Another mind boggling event was how both NS and SS could roam around freely while the genuine opposition had to play hide and seek’……………dont put too much pressure on your mind bro its easy to understand if you are unbiased………NS roamed ‘freely’ at the back of the nation who fully supported him after he had shown the courage to come out of the house …….No doubt the cowards were in hiding……or just like a jackal they were really waiting for the ‘opportunity’ againm to ride on someones back!
- ‘very unlike the old Malek’………..well i prefer being ‘old’ ……kind of brings maturity….what can i say in years to come when you come out of your ‘youth’ and grow ‘old’ …..you will understand…………..everything is not resolved by fight and fists ….sometimes one has to give in to gain something lot bigger………….and the biggest thing is Pakistan….Long Live Pakistan…..and long live Shirkuh!!!
@Shirkuh
“..Elections:
Didn’t NS support the boycot and then turned his back?..”
@Malek has already rebutted rest of it so I will only address this one
Can you produce any statement/video etc. to backup your a!legation. I mean the real one in which NS announced boycott unilaterally i.e. without PPP also doing the same. Even after BB’s murder when he announced boycott, it was conditional. The problem with JI/PTI is that they missed the boat by acting immaturely and without any political understanding of the ground reality in pakistan. Although I believe whatever happens, always happens according to the will of Allah and for some good reason. It was possible that if JI/PTI had not boycotted then they might have got some seats (10 or so) which would have only added to their nuisance value. Now I can guarantee that whenever elections are held, JI/PTI will be no where to be seen. They simply don’t get it. People of Pakistan are moderate and don’t imagine themselves ruled by stone-age mentality talibans who can enter their houses at whim and force them to marry their young daughters on gun point (being a father of three daughters, I will rather die fighting taliban then see my daughters going through that pain). There are credible reports that some of taliban were getting married two times even in a single day. Being a normal Pakistani, I can never vote for the people who support goons doing these heinous actions. IK is always at the wrong side of the history and I have lost hope in him as I have mentioned many time before. He is a lost cause for me and all my hopes of him being a new force have now diminished.
no need to call him Imran Taliban Khan..
just say Taliban Khan as we will understand it is about him
Imran khan a.k.a IK & a.k.a Taliban Khan
@vampire cLutch
I like your comments; please keep posting them. I wish someone tell Taliban Khan how wrong he is on this issue. When will Taliban Khan wake up from his pro-Taliban sleeping mode.
Thanks deltapak. Quite an eye opener!
I hope people here, especially the “liberal fascists” will realise that their insane response to Imran Khan’s article is taking the spotlight away from the real issues facing Pakistan. Our real enemy is America, which is stabbing us in the back in the guise of a friend. America is nobody’s friend: please re-read what I said above.
Imran Khan’s views may be flawed now but they will evolve and a consensus will begin to emerge once a nationwide debate is allowed to take place. We simply need more disclosure of what our government and our armed forces choose to keep under wraps.
PLEASE, PLEASE CAN WE ALL PUT PRESSURE ON OUR DYSFUNCTIONAL LEADERS AND INSTITUTIONS TO GIVE US TRUTHFUL INFORMATION AND TO INSTITUTE A DEBATE ON SECURITY ISSUES IN OUR NATIONAL ASSEMBLY?
While Pakistan burns some people choose to wallow in the mud of petty party politics!
What have you done to deltapak’s post? Where has it gone?
@mbokhari
“Imran Khan has this acute electile dysfunction resulting in him shooting his load before it is time .
Nawaz Sharif does not suffer from premature escalation”
You seem to have very intimate knowledge about IK & NS!!
Is that due to your ” different orientation” or just a “talent” that runs in the family?
good one @hasanm lolzz
It is not a bad idea to send Taliban Khan into war zone to get live reporting. Does Taliban Khan have guts to go to Swat? Taliban Khan’s letter writing is a good hobby for his IK Fan CLub members and in return they write wah wah kitna acha likha hai imran bhai ney. imran ko PM hona chaiye
IK Fan Club members are daydreamers. Can someone tell them to be a PM you have to win over 200 seats. How many seats does Taliban Khan’s pressure group PTI have in Assembly?
Very good and well timed as well to give answers to all those who are trying to portray Imran Khan in a wrong way.
He is very much correct that he is not answerable for the un-Islamic acts of talibans and neither he supports this military operation as it should have been the last choice of the government and should only be taken after having full confidence that we can manage the displaced persons.
Now this one again for all JI/PTI lovers and after repeated efforts of bringing sanity plus logic to the issue instead of emotions
Someone asked Imam Shafie if he had ever lost an argument. He replied, “I always win if my opponent is a wise person but I always lose if my opponent is a stup!d”
@freemason
I am impressed by your dedication man!!! you hate Imran Khan.. dont you!
You have given a very good account of insurgencies (or resistance movements from other view point).
But you did not highlighted the critical difference between Pakistan and other states fighting against insurgents. It is a fact that Pakistan is the only State who raised this insurgent force herself. Going by fair play principal, it is the responsibility of state to allow peaceful rehabilitation of those once supported by state. your thoughts ???
Imran Khan says,”Where I stand”.
Read the following and you will know where you stand in the hearts of swati people:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=179688
@Najam Syed
Thank you for the honors (even if they were satirical
and thus the name ‘freemason’)
Let me clarify. I do not hate Imran Khan and that is why at no point in my post I have called him names or ridiculed him like some other people and I have addressed him most respectfully. I am impressed by his commitment to politics against all odds but where I disagree with him (vehemently) is his approach to foreign policy in general and this insurgency in particular and I try to present facts followed by my analysis/opinion rather than mere bashing. Where I detest him is that in spite of over whelming evidence he is refusing to even reconsider his arguments let alone his position. I had decided not to post anything after my first post but then Shirkuh had a valid point in his following post.
As for your question that Pakistan had armed these particular insurgents. That is not entirely correct. The insurgents armed and trained by Pakistan were Gulbadin Hikmatyar, Ahmed Shah Masood, Abdur Rasul Sayyaf, Sirajuddin Haqqani, Abdullah Azzaam, Hafiz Saeed (LeT), Sibghatullah Mujaddidi, Professor Rabbani, Syed Salahuddin (Kashmir) etc. and none of these people (Ahmad Shah Masood is dead) is rebelling or conducting activities against/inside Pakistan. Whether we should have armed/trained these guys is altogether a different debate and we are not getting into that debate here. The present rebels Baitullah Mehsud, Mulla Fazlullah, Ameer Izzat Khan, Muslim Khan, Mangal Bagh etc. were not trained or armed by Pakistani establishment neither did any of these guys ever fought in Afghanistan (even after 9/11) or in Kashmir. The only entity they have picked up weapons against is Pakistan. The foot soldiers maybe involved on both sides. I agree that it is the responsibility of the state to settle those who fought for it under cover. Why it wasn’t done or could not be done and what can be done now to address this will require another post
@Shirkuh & all other members of Pissed Tafreeh-e-Imran (PTI)
I’m still waiting for the answers to my following simple questions
1- Why doesn’t IK condemn Taliban savages without any ifs and buts ?
2- Has IK ever arranged a single Press conference to condemn in-human acts of Taliban savages ? Date and Place, please.
3- Has IK ever led a rally against in-human terrorist activities of Taliban savages ? Date and Place, please.
This is where Allah stands (in whose name these misguided mullas claim o be fighting)
11. When it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” they say: “Why, we only Want to make peace!”
12. Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not
(Al -Baqarah 2:11-12)
and
84. And remember We took your covenant (to this effect): Shed no blood amongst you, nor turn out your own people from your homes: and this ye solemnly ratified, and to this ye can bear witness.
85. After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes; assist (Their enemies) against them, in guilt and rancour; and if they come to you as captives, ye ransom them, though it was not lawful for you to banish them. Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.
86. These are the people who buy the life of this world at the price of the Hereafter: their penalty shall not be lightened nor shall they be helped.
(Al -Baqarah 2:84-86)
for IK haters. Now the list of opponents of Military Operation is increasing day by day.
I recommend them to read the articles of Irfan Siddiqui, Hamid Mir, Dr. SHahid Masood (may be all of them are with Talibans).
Time will prove that IK is right again. No need to wait for years but only days people will certainly understand who are the planner of these operations. Your great leader is creating confusion as always he has done. Probably this time he is U.S blue eyed guy for the next change.
@wbuttar
“for IK haters. Now the list of opponents of Military Operation is increasing day by day.
I recommend them to read the articles of Irfan Siddiqui, Hamid Mir, Dr. SHahid Masood (may be all of them are with Talibans). …”
These three already had dubious standings among bloggers here. Although I like Dr. SM and Hamid Mir but on this issue both are keeping their options open by playing from both sides of the pitch. One day they are bashing taliban, next day it looks like they are taking sides with them. It feels they are waiting which way the wind blows so that they can claim, we are with you. IS is an ex-jamatia so what else you expect from him.
just read this and judge for yourselves:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=179688
@wbuttar
And you failed to mention the column of Haroon-ur-Rasheed who had been a fan of IK but has openly opposed his stance!! Start thinking for yourself instead of relying on the crooks and confused.
@wbuttar
“Now the list of opponents of Military Operation is increasing day by day” >>>>
Please name the parties who are opposing the Millitary Operation against Terrorists.
@Cogito-Ergo-Sum
Your agenda is not Pakistan it’s just secularism.
Another stooge of the west who wants to copy his masters as opposed to thinking for himself!
bechari-awam!
Please try to free yourself from politicising something as important and sacred as Pakistan’s security. A lot of what you say is true but the unfortunate manner in which you express yourself robs your posts of effect.
As human beings we all have certain strengths and shortcomings. Imran Khan has his fair share of human weaknesses but his strengths are also phenomenal. For the sake of Pakistan we need to rise above petty party politics and try to unite as a nation.
Yes, Imran Khan is stubborn and arrogant but he also has abundant reserves of honesty, truthfulness and immense talent. He is a national asset and it is up to us to use that asset wisely. Unwise attacks such as yours will only alienate him.
Here is the link to Irfan Siddiqui’s article you referred to in your post. Harron-ur-Rasheed’s article in yesterday’s Jang is also worth reading:
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/27-05-2009/col3.htm
@freemason very well explained brother , i appreciate your grip on the background of talib history.we need some one like you who can help to show the reality of talibs to those who dont know their aims.Non of the comander has been to school and how can we can give them to rule our country.why puhthoons has to be killed on the name of islam.People from swat were peaceful and religious people . they suported F ullah but he turned out to be a nausty person destroyed the tourist industry of swat.simply ask mullhas , JI and F.Rehman
what we have achieved for fighting for the last 30 yrs.Nationalists didnt bring dollars to AFG , they were JI and F.rehman who brought all this problem who initially burn houses of puhthoons and no one is safe now.where are these religios groups now, their industries are well running(madrasas) and good products of suicidal are comming out.we are muslims and we know how to run our lives , we dont want mullah to show me his rigid beliefs.I think pak comunity will divide now in two groups of true progressive muslims and jahil muslims of followers of religious extremist group and inocent muslims willl be forced to fight against extremist to save islam and PAK.
@Aseer
“…Yes, Imran Khan is stubborn and arrogant but he also has abundant reserves of honesty, truthfulness and immense talent. He is a national asset and it is up to us to use that asset wisely. Unwise attacks such as yours will only alienate him….”
that’s exactly my point. No doubt, IK is sincere and talented, but not every body can do every thing and he has proven time and again that leading a nation, unfortunately is not his cup of tea. Being arrogant and stubborn are the last qualities you want to see in a political leader. A leader should be flexible enough to listen to the other point of views and work collectively to arrive at the solution. If the solution is not working to its value then he shouldn’t be stubborn or egoistic and try to find a work around on the fly. Remember the time when he hit one of his fan with the bat so hard on some pity issue that this unfortunate fellow had to be rushed to hospital for c0ncussions. I know it was in 80s but it looks like he has not changed since then because nature cannot be changed anyway. I accept that the present lot of political leaders like NS and others (AZ is an accidental leader and will be gone soon) are also not angels but at least NS has led the nation in good and bad times. And as you might have heard a political wisdom, “better to accept a dev!l you know then the dev!l you don,t know”
@To all PTI beleivers
Old saying is you are doing well when your opponents are on the way to attck you. So these frustrated MQM and PPP slaves are here doing the job which their masters failed to do.
Oh dear! Bechari-awam, you are still talking politics, aren’t you? At a time of grave danger to the very existence of Pakistan we need to rise above mere political considerations.
Of all the political leaders around, the one most likely to give Pakistanis a sense of pride and self-respect is Imran Khan. Your favourite politician, Mr Sharif, simply does not have what it takes. His obsession with wheeling and dealing, and acquisition of wealth and power, has robbed his personality of some character traits which are necessary in an inspirational leader (cast your mind back to the activities of PM NS in 1999, just before he was outsmarted by Busharraf). I can imagine IK holding his own in a face-off with Obama and Hillary Clinton. But NS? Oh dear, no! He will certainly be an improvement on the bumbling, stammering Z but the need of the moment is a self-confident leader, proud of who he is and where he comes from – sorry, NS is a non-starter.
I repeat, we need to rise above party politics and unite as a nation. How about NS as PM with IK as his foreign minister? The first step in the direction of national unity would be an open discussion in the National Assembly about Pakistan’s security. Once all the dirty tricks being played behind the scenes are acknowledged and the real enemies of Pakistan are revealed, I am sure you will find no problem with IK giving his support to armed action which is necessary for the survival of Pakistan.
The whole turmoil in Pakistan is because of the failing in faith. They say Lahe Laha Illallah, but believe in formulating a belief to glamorise only fake heroes. If the nation turns to the progenies of the House of the Prophet SAWW and inserts Adl- the justice in the fundamental of faith where it is missing, all ailments of the nation will disappear.
And Imran Khan will not need writing long letters, accusing all in the ring but him, and fomenting hatred through his every letter.
The wars in the least trim the ailments and the peace talk from the position of weakness acheives nothing, unless it is Bhutto and Indrawhose values were humaneness.
@Citizen X
“Your agenda is not Pakistan it’s just secularism.” >>> BTW it was also the agenda of my Quaid M.A. Jinnah. Just go through his speech delivered to constituent assembly of Pakistan on 11th August, 1947.”Another stooge of the west who wants to copy his masters as opposed to thinking for himself!
“Another stooge of the west who wants to copy his masters as opposed to thinking for himself! ” >>>> Instead of personal attacks please answer my simple questions
1- Why doesn’t IK condemn Taliban savages without any ifs and buts ?
2- Has IK ever arranged a single Press conference to condemn in-human acts of Taliban savages ? Date and Place, please.
3- Has IK ever led a rally against in-human terrorist activities of Taliban savages ? Date and Place, please
ALL.
Please read Hamid Mir’s column i Jang today:
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/28-05-2009/col5.htm
Unless we are able to unite as a nation we are doomed! We should decide what is good for us and take whatever decisions we think are right. Foreign powers have no right to interfere in our internal affairs. If a decision to launch an attack on Pakistani territory is taken when our puppet of a president is held in the clutches of Obama and Clinton then many Pakistanis are going to feel sceptical.
PLEASE, THE NEED OF THE HOUR IS AN OPEN DEBATE ON PAKISTAN”S SECURITY. IF DECISIONS CONTINUE TO BE TAKEN AS THEY HAVE BEEN RECENTLY THEN TRUTH WILL SEEP OUT SLOWLY AND RESULT IN WIDESPREAD SUSPICION, DISTRUST AND DISHARMONY.
@ALL MQM propagandist on this site and other who support Army Action!
Your support of this bloody Army Action in Malakand would take you to Hell insahallah! Even you have not killed with your hands one innocent person but with your support you are part of this barbaric action. This action is not against the Taliban but againt the women, childern and old people. I am sure Taliban hiding them in the mountains and would fight the Gourille War against the Pakistan Army as Afghan Taliban fighting against the USA/Natto. So get ready to count dead bodies of poor Army soldiers as the Americans counting the dead bodies of thier soldiers in Afghanistan.
@asif65
Why do you support Taliban animals so strongly? Didn’t you see what they did yesterday in Lahore and today in Peshawar?
Taliban’s bloody game is coming to an end and our brave Army has decided to kill all Talibans. God has also prepared the hottest spot of hell for these taliban killers and our Army is sending them quickly to burn in the fire of hell.Zillat yahn bhi or wahn bhi.
You and your political masters Taliban Khan and MH should stop daydreaming because our Army will not even give one inch land to Taliban animls. Taliban’s reign of terror is coming to an end same as it happend in Sri Lanka with Tamil Tigers.
@Cogito-Ergo-Sum
Nicely described; you should be given award for your good description and thoughtful comments. Same applies to JI and Munawwar Hasan because JI has never protested in public or a rally agaisnt Taliban’s ongoing terrible atrocities in Swat but their party is busy staging rallies against Army action outside Parliament in Islamabad and other cities as well.
This is the height of munafiqat.
@asif65
“..Your support of this bloody Army Action in Malakand would take you to Hell insahallah! ..”
Is this wish or fatwa. Because if it’s a wish then I am offended being a strong supporter of killing taliban any where in the world but if it’s your fatwa then I am fine with it
@asif65
“..I am sure Taliban hiding them in the mountains and would fight the Gourille War against the Pakistan Army as Afghan Taliban fighting against the USA/Natto. So get ready to count dead bodies of poor Army soldiers as the Americans counting the dead bodies of thier soldiers in Afghanistan…”
Again just to clarify if this is your wish too just like this being of IK, JI, Fazlu diesel, HM, Dr. SM, Irfan siddiqui and bunch of other ap0logist of ta!ibanimals. I guess you forgot to say InshaAllah after this one!
Being against the army action does not means supporting the taliban. I hope you can get this soon cleared if you are sincere to Pakistan and people of Pakistan otherwise you are playing in the hands of enemy of Pakistan to weak the Pakistan.
Believe me this Army action is going to bring Pakistan many years in the past beside the unjustice done Malakand people and to displaced persons.
@asif65
In other words, “Being against the army action does not means supporting the taliban” but being in favor of action will make you liable to burn in hell for ever, you must be a madrasa teacher in your past life
” Believe me this Army action is going to bring Pakistan many years in the past beside the unjustice done Malakand people and to displaced persons.”
why should I believe someone who is a self-assumed gate keeper of hell. In my opinion it is the other way round i.e. if the army action fails due to some mor0ns creating large scale sympathy for thr0at-slitters causing army to back-0ff, the country named Pakistan as we know it, will be finished.
I hope this article of Dr. Shahid Masood can change some minds!!
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/27-05-2009/col5.htm
All supporter of army action should either join themself army or send their childerns to army to fight against these Talibans. It is easy siting in Drawing infront of computer with a cup of tea to play with life of other people through supporting this bloody army action.
@asif65
Would you please offer a solution other than application of military force to root out the rebels in the light of the following situation:
Imagine you are a peaceful citizen going about your way of life. One day you wake up to find masked men carrying automatic weapons. You go out to work but you are stopped by them for shaving your beard. They give you two “chittars” for that immensely grave sin and you go to work puzzled. You come back and on the way they again give you two “chittars” for having your shalwar below your ankles. The two acts you violated are sunnat-e-moakkeda but if you don’t follow them its between you and Lord and nobody else has the right to be Khuda-i-Faujdar on that count. When you reach back home you find that your daughter didn’t go to school because she tells you there was no school as the masked men you saw had blown up the building. You also find that your infant child could not get polio vaccination because the rebels had declared it “jewish conspiracy” to make muslim children invalid. Then two armed masked men knock your door and ask you to give them “sadqa baray-e-jihad”. You reluctantly give them some money without uttering a word. In addition you are told that next time they won’t come to your door to ask for money instead it is your duty to come and give your sadqa regularly at a particular address. Then the men ask you hey its prayer time and why aren’t you at the mosque. You try to tell them that your infant is sick and you have to be at your home but they roughly drag you out of your home to the mosque. After the prayers all believers are ordered to stay behind and see the establishment of “insaaf”. A blindfolded man is brought in the square outside the mosque. You come to know through the whispers in the crowd that somebody had blamed the blindfolded man of murder. After the exchange of a few words between some men (which is the trial) the blindfolded man is beheaded in the square. You feel sick and walk back home. On the way you want to go to the police station to register your complaint but you find the building on fire. Next day when you reach your place of work you find it blown up because it was next to a CD shop. You come back home and after a few minutes your door is violently banged. You go to check the matter and armed masked men storm your house dragging out an honorable lady from your house who happened to go out shopping for the daily bread in the day. She is accused of coming out without a mehram and being seen with a stranger. All your pleadings fall on deaf ears the lady is dishonorably flogged outside the house in front of a crowd. You are sick of your surroundings when you hear noise outside your house. You go out to check when you come to know that your neighbor was shot dead because he refused to pay the “sadqa”. Next day a group of masked men knock at your door and ask you that one of their “mujahid” wants to marry a lady in your house. You know the guy is a thug, addict and illiterate criminal. But you can’t do anything in front of 25 armed masked men. You miserably see the lady being forced into a nikah with that thug. Next day another group of masked men comes to your house and bangs your door. You come out and ask them what the hell do they want now. They ask you “politely” to “waqf” one of your teenage sons in the way of “jihad”. You cry on the top of your voice that he is just a student and the son cries too but he is taken away to be “purified”. Two weeks later the masked men come to you with a video cassette in which your son is shown wearing a suicide vest and speaking like a zombie that he is going in the way of God. You beg mercy from the masked men but they tell you that they are here to congratulate you as your son achieved “martyrdom” in yesterday’s suicide bomb attack in some city of Islamic Republic of Pakistan while killing “10 kuffaar amreeka ke pithu”. Your business is destroyed, your little daughter is forced into illiteracy, your honor is destroyed, your son is dead and all around you is such sickness.
What do you do? Please for God’s sake tell me what do you do?? Wake up for God’s sake until this thing happens to you (God forbid) as well.
The fairness of mind demands that all without fear to losing heaven or fervour to their early schooling in branded teaching, support Justness and oppose tyranny.
Look who is tyrinical, they are the Talibans, who are imposing a disparaging culture by force, which has been carved by the tip of the dagger and the deloyment of bombed bodies, which blow where they see will cause the maximum deaths. Woe to them, not to the army – peace on them who are eliminating them. And no sane person wants any innocent soul hurt.
@freemason
“…What do you do? Please for God’s sake tell me what do you do?? Wake up for God’s sake until this thing happens to you (God forbid) as well.”
Great comment. I did that exercise a number of years ago and decided to talk against those thugs even though I was not even married then. Now a father of three young daughters, I am really grateful to Allah who guided me to the right path then.
@freemason
This is the story you tell the world to get sympathy or this story that has been told to the world media to join together against Taliban and their view of Islam. May I ask you question, how many of your daughters and sisters Taliban has taken by force for marriage. How many sons you have given to Taliban on gun point. OR any one you know for sure. No body will remain quite after such barbarianism but come in public but not such reporting official or unofficial has been done by any media network as an evidence or proof to prove your story. This is all exaggerated. You sound a good story teller, only a CIA trained member of cult secret organization can make that story like that.
@freemason
Hats off for you on writing thse thought-provoking and eye-opening comments and I think they should be read on TV and radio for everyone to learn some lessons.
Mullahs are destroying this nation and Talibans are worst kind of criminals one can imagine. What is so sad that they are supported by many Jahil people who think a bearded person must be given extra respect regardless how big criminla he is. What a shame
And their support is rising because they play with public sentiments; every bomb attack is due to USA, India and Israel. Talibans are agels and cannot kill another muslim; people are living under this fallacy and even our politicians like Taliban Khan and Jamat Islami misguiding public by supporting these criminal thugs.
Whole Taliban movement is a criminal organisation run by savage thugs and using religion to justify their terrible crimes and atrocities. I wonder how few thousands Taliban criminals can hold hostage 2.5 million people (of Swat area) who are now living in terrible conditions in camps throuhgout the country.
Why didn’t these people fight against Taliban criminals?
Why didn’t these refugees stand against Taliban atrocities in their own hometown?
They would be living in their own home instead of a refugee tent had they stood against Taliban’s crimes before.
400 plus schools would have been saved from burning had they taken swift action after the burning of first school.
@freemason
What if you come to know that these people are not Muslims and are being used by your enemies, India & US. Their mission is to destabilize Pakistan and defame Islam, by using people with “weak beliefs” like you.
@ freemason
You are really doing a great job !
Please keep it up !
@pakwatan 12
“What if you come to know that these people are not Muslims” >>>> Are you referring to Taliboons ?
freemason Sahib!
Bajaa farmaaya. Mujhay e’teraaf hai ke aap ka ‘aadha sach’ haqeeqat pe mabni hai. Aap kii kuchch aur tehreereN bhi meri nazar se guzri haiN. Yaqeenan aap alaamaat ka ilaaj tajveez karnay ke maahir haiN lekin un alaamaat ke neechay asal beemaari ki jaR tak aap kii rasaa’ee naheiN ho paati.
Aap ne jin logoN ka zikr kiya hai ye qaum ke mujrim haiN, ek saRta huwa sartaan haiN. Ye sartaan paida kaisay huwa? Mera khayaal hai ke us ke muharrakaat bhi aap ba-khoobi samajhtay haiN – puri qaum ko samjhaanay ke liye ye zaroori hai ke Qaumi Assembly meiN is mauzoo par bahs kii jaaye.
MaiN samajhta huN le hamaari pareshaaniyoN kii ibtedaa’ee vajah naaqis ta’leem aur naaqis rayaasati idaaray haiN.
AngrezoN se “aazaadi” haasil karnay ke ba’d hum log unhi ki zubaan aur (ek hud tuk) inhi ke taur tareeqoN ko apnay ooper musallat kar ke zehni taur pe ghulaam ho ke baith gaye haiN. Aap kii aaqilaana baateN samjhnay vaalay kitnay log haiN? Mulk kii aabaadi ka 95% se zaaed hissa aap kii tehreereN naheiN paRh sakta. Agar un ke liye aap jaisay aqalmandoN kii baat samajhnay se pehlay ek ghair mulki zubaan sekhna zaroori hai to hameiN naam-nehaad “aazaadi” kii kya zaroorat thii?
COULD YOU TELL US PLEASE WHAT PART YOU HAVE PLAYED IN BRINGING KNOWLEDGE, JUSTICE AND EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY TO THE EXPLOITED PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN?
At one time China and South Korea were both categorised with Pakistan as ‘developing nations’ but they have since broken out of that straitjackjet while Pakistan has stood still. The reason is that those countries are able to call upon the whole of their available talent while we unfortunate Pakistanis depend, to a very large extent, on the 5% or so of “English educated” exploiting class. Try explaining the benefits of an “English education” to the Chinese and the Koreans – and the Japanese before them – who managed to develop their languages to a point where the whole population could participate in the development of the country.
Please ponder long and hard over these two articles:
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/29-05-2009/col6.htm
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/29-05-2009/col5.htm
@freemason
Now let me continue to tell the part 2 of the story.
After all this you are so tired that you want to take a short sleep. Suddenly you hear a Blast near your hause. You go out to see what happend. Your neighbour with whole his famile is killed because an army gunship helecopter thrown a boom. You gether your family members to leave the city. The mens stay behind to look after the shop and haus. Just the women, childern and old people come with you. These are the personen coming with you. Wifes of your two brother and their childern. Your wife, your childern (Two sons age of 18 and 19, one doughter age of 6) and your old parents are also with you. You take a van to leave the city. At the end of the city you see some army viehcles. You stop your van to tell the soldiers that you are just taking your family members to some save place. As the soldiers see you coming towards them they shoot a rocket on the van. But they miss the van. You start runing and try to tell soldiers that they should not shoot. But it is too late. The second rocket blast your van. You run back and what you see. Your father and wifes of your brothers are already dead. The rest of the family is injured. The soldiers tell you why you did’nt respected carfew. But as you tell them that since last two days there was no electricity so the TV was not going and you did’nt that it is carfew they don’t belief you. You tell them that they should leave you alone so that you can take your injured family member to camps outside the city. As you come in the camps to get the medical treatment. You have to register the whole family so you and your family can get the medical treatment. For this you have to wait 2 hours. Mean while your mother deied too because of the injuries. After the registration rest of the family get the treatment. But because of the shortage of medicine, food and the cold of the night your 6 year old daughter deies also that night. Your two sons leave the family to get some help. One goes to Lahore and the other goes to Karachi. But they are not allowed to enter these cities because they have registered themself as refugees. So they come back with empty hand and they hear that their mother is also dead. You decide with your two sons to leave the camp to go back to your city because its nothing left to save. But as you come to your city and enter your street and what you see your eyes cannot beleave. Your beautful hause does not exist any more. So you go to mosque to get some help. All the mens of your street are gathered themself in the mosque to take the revenge. But as they see ther is no Taliban but just the army soldiers. So they kill these soldiers and take there weapons.
@freemason, now it your turn to tell the part 3 of the story!
@asif 65
Are you really Hamid Mir ?
http://jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/28-05-2009/col5.htm
a little breaking news for imran khan lover group “imran khan coming to usa on june 12 under the pretense of raising funds for s khanum hospital but real reason is to meet hillary clinton. Secret meeting has been arranged for him to come on board with america”.
you wont find this news anywhere and feel free to disregad these 3 lines. You have a surprise coming soon.
@lota6177
your source please?
@janujermankhan
high ranking person of pti ny who is making arrangments. Wait for june 12 it will be clear.
@lota6177
hmm… if turned out to be true, it might damage Imran Khan’s reputation.
@JanuJerman Khan
“hmm… if turned out to be true, it might damage Imran Khan’s reputation.”
First you need to build a reputation before you could damage it
“Finally, my heart bleeds for the poor soldier confronting his own people turned into misguided and brutalised militants and giving his life for a war wrought on him by a corrupt and decadent ruling elite that cannot see beyond the lure of American dollars that have become as much of a curse for this hapless nation as the criminal extremists in our very midst.”
my heart bleeds for the solider who sees this misguided statement being made by a popular political leader and interprets it as truth.
soldiers of pakistan are not fighting their own people. they are fighting thugs who enforced their way of life with the use of weapons.
for imran khan and his supporters and his mouthpieces at this excuse of a website to throw dirt in the face of the public is quite a brilliant strategy. i give imran full credit. he has learned how to apply his deadly inswinging yorkers to his political career. no one in pakistan is against resolving disputes without military action. from president musharraf, who had committee after committee in the NA sit and discuss the balochistan issue, till now even with the operation in swat and the NAR regulation, those elements who choose to fight the state have been given ample time to lay down their arms and follow what the state tells them to do. if imran khan and his minions cannot get that much into their brains, they need immediate psychological help. no state in todays world will accept being dictated terms of a peace agreement with anti state elements. the pakistani state has committed excesses in balochistan, and successive rulers since NS have apologized for them. what happened in 2003-04 in balochistan was not an operation against balochi rights, but very much FOR them. the rule of sardars and anti state nawabs must end. we are in the 21st century now. lets learn to behave like it. as for swat, imran and his psychadelic backers in the JI are very quick to point out the cost of an operation, but as quick to ignore what the state is dealing with. you have a host of well armed, well trained fighters who are openly challenging the state and its legitimacy. no matter how much you may hate a government, or may wish to implement ’shariah’ everyone will agree to pick up a gun and slaughter civilians and army men is probably not the right way to do it. the army action is absolutely justified, and if imran khan wants his pathetic political career to go anywhere, he ought to reassess his taliban sympathy and disgusting ‘these-are-our-own-people’ nonsense pretty quickly. i can guarantee otherwise he will not have a political career, lousy or otherwise, in the next elections.
It’s been ages the last time i watched his talk shows.
@JanuJerman Khan
hmm… if turned out to be true, it might damage Imran Khan’s reputation
guess whos making a backroom deal? Why keep it a secret? honesty is the best policy.
It seems there are too many party hacks and America’s hired stooges here who will not allow a patriotic discussion concerning Pakistan’s security needs to take place. The key point that people are doing their best to sweep under the carpet is this:
THE DECISION TO LAUNCH THE SWATI ATTACK WAS TAKEN BY THE AMERICANS, NOT BY OUR GOVERNMENT. THE PUPPET Z SAT IN THE LAP OF CLINTON WHILE THE PUPPETEER OBAMA PULLED THE STRINGS AND THE ATTACK WAS LAUNCHED!
Had the issues been discussed in the National Assembly before an order for armed action was issued by our political leadership in Islamabad, there would have been little opposition. It is the peculiar circumstances surrounding the armed action that has generated widespread scepticism. People are asking: WHAT IS THE UNDERLING TRUTH?
The other key point that the American agents and party hacks try to suppress is that with each passing day the conditions in Pakistan are resembling more and more those in Iraq and Afghanistan.The wars in those countries are clearly America’s wars – do I need to go into all that here? Just ask yourself why the Americans had to invade those two unfortunate countries and you will be confronted with a pack of lies and deceit. Do you know that under the pretence of punishing Saddam Hussein for possessing WMDs, the Americans have killed, directly or indirectly, a million Iraqis.?
Right now we have a raging civil war going on in our own country where Pakistani is killing Pakistani and the stench of intrigue by foreign powers is thick in the air, not to mention the presence of foreign fighters on Pakistani soil. Below are links to two articles, by Masooda Bano and Haroon-ur-Rasheed. The latter article also includes a comment on Saleem Safi’s article to which I referred yesterday.
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=180351
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/30-05-2009/col4.htm
WHY, OH WHY, DO WE STILL HAVE THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT 17 AND WHY ARE WE UNABLE TO DISCUSS MATTERS OF GRAVE IMPORTANCE TO PAKISTAN IN OUR PARLIAMENT?
To all those people that think the taliban have commited such brutal atrocities and have taken over the swat valley etc and the army was forced to take action as a last resort. Here is an eye opener, it is alll government propaganda. I have family members and friends from the swat region who have fleed the fighting and are currently living with us. From them, i found out that the taliban numbers were at best in the hundreds and the had committed no widespread atrocities, but at best were a nuisance. The government launched the swat operation on the orders of the US government. It was not a coincidence that Asif ali zardari visits to the Us and the swat operation started around the same time.
@pakwatan12
Whether these guys are muslims or non-muslims, pakistanis or non-pakistanis they are destabilizing Pakistan and they should be crushed. Additionally, we should come out of our dreamworld and realize that we do have a problem amongst ourselves. They do have foreign elements and foreign backing but simply thinking that these guys are non-muslim agents takes us away from reality. The list of people published by the government with bounty on their heads are all muslims, their records exist in local madressahs and local people/tribes are fairly well acquainted with them. Face the reality no matter how hard it is.
Your questioning of my beliefs is regrettable. We are here to debate political issues not to engage in a personal fist fight. How good a muslim I am as far is ‘aqaid’ & ‘ibadaat’ is concerned is between me & God and this debate has nothing to do with it. That is exactly the problems with you guys, when you run out of arguments you begin a personal slandering campaign questioning the other side’s beliefs.
@Aseer,
Mohtaram, sukhn azmai ka shukrya. Aap ki riffat-e-khayal mauzu ko is qadar wusat de chuki hai ke us ka ahaata ek tehreer mein karna mumkin nahein. Albatta zaer-e-behas mouzu ko us qadar wusat denay se jo uljhao paida hota hai wo hamein ek khaas nateejay per pohonchnay se mehroom rakhta hai. Isi liye mouzu tak mehdood rehna chahiye. (Choonkay aap ne apni tehreer ka baqya nisf hissa zaban-e-farang mein likha hai is liye mein bhi baqya nisf usi zuban mein likhoon ga. Arz karnay ka maqsad tha ke mein bhi qaumi zuban se aashna hoon aur is mein izhar-e-khayal per qudrat rakhta hoon.)
You have brought in everything from language to education to what not in this issue. Now there are two aspects of this issue – one is long term and the other is short term. Since the thread was about the short term debate i.e. operation or no-operation I didn’t delve into the long term aspects. Most of your points are very valid when put in the context of long term analysis and I am in agreement with them but let us keep the long term cause-analysis debate for another thread.
However, like @pakwatan12 your asking of personal questions like what I have personally contributed to the country is regrettable. As I said to @pakwatan12 we are here to debate political issues and I would not like to go into personal details of what I have and what I haven’t contributed, on this public forum. Stick to the issues and do not get personal.
@asif65
Everything that you have stated falls into the category of strategy, tactics and management of the operation and its fallout and over that I am in agreement with you that reckless and excessive use of force or extra heavy handedness is counterproductive. Just so that we don’t move in circles there are two aspects of this operation:
1- The causes and objectives of the operation i.e. whether the operation should be carried out or not and what is supposed to be achieved through it.
2- How should the operation be carried out, what weapons, strategies and tactics to use and how to manage its fallout.
All my arguments and analysis falls in the first aspect (where I support the operation and its objective of rooting out the rebels without any negotiations) whereas all your presentation falls into the second aspect. Just because the government is badly managing the second aspect does not mean that the first aspect is wrong. Again, I am in agreement with you that there is significant room for improvement in how IDPs are managed, how targets are eliminated and how force is applied. I also agree with you that recklessness and irresponsibility in this regard is counterproductive and in another post on another thread I had asserted that the whole thing will require a surgeon’s approach and not an iron smith’s. I would urge you not to confuse the two aspects like IK and address the two aspects separately. While doing so be realistic and kindly consider the following things:
1- This is war it will bring hardships. It is not a bed of roses. There will be damage to property and life, there will be collateral damage and there will be hardships no matter how precise weapons you use. We have to face the hardships with courage, help our brothers and sisters in need and keep their morale high, give public and political support to the army so that the operation is finished quickly and the time span of the hardships of the people is reduced.
2- Collateral damage will result from three factors: a) Excessive use of force by the military. b) Lack of discipline and failure to follow guidelines by the local populace. c) Barbaric nature of the militants who will use civilian property and lives as shields. Objectively focus on all aspects rather than only one.
3- Emotional and political dealing with IDP issue will only add to the complexity of the mess. If the IDPs have to live in camps they should be accommodated close to their areas rather than being encamped 2500 km downstream near Karachi. That adds to the cost of logistics, ability to help them, ability to monitor them and bring them back once the operation is over. Proper registration is necessary to avoid proper administration and do not make such issues emotional and political. Remember one of Jinnah’s tenets was discipline!
Be objective and rational when dealing with these issues. We are not here to win arguments rather our objective should be to find the best solution to end this problem and put our country back to progression. Your unrealistic and emotional approach will add to the complexities just like IK’s would.
(End of my posting to this thread).
IK knows the public will never vote him to power. His only chance to get to the helm of power is to ride on the wave of talibanisation. That is why he is against any military operation against talibs anywhere in the world. I used to appreciate his work related to the hospital he built, but it is not enough to hide the fact that he is a talib sympathizer & supporter in disguise of a moderate politician.
As for JI. They were against the creation of Pakistan itself. There stance hasn’t changed much.
IK? JI? Please crawl out of the political gutter and look at things from a higher perspective. This is a time to unit
Has our leadership – political and military – decided to fight America’s war? Our gallant jawans in the armed forces will no doubt defeat the enemy but what happens then? There is an acrid smell of plots being cooked in the corridors of power. We need to wake up before Pakistan goes the way of Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/31-05-2009/col14.htm
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/31-05-2009/col3.htm
Sorry, the second line in my post was left incomplete. It should read: “It is a time to unite, not to manoeuvre for political advantage”.
Also, in an earlier post the word “UNDERLYING” was mistyped as “UNDERLING”.
Sorry.
@ Shirkuh & all other members of Pissed Tafreeh-e-Imran (PTI)
I’m still waiting for the answers to my following simple questions
1- Why doesn’t IK condemn Taliban savages without any ifs and buts ?
2- Has IK ever arranged a single Press conference to condemn in-human acts of Taliban savages ? Date and Place, please.
3- Has IK ever led a rally against in-human terrorist activities of Taliban savages ? Date and Place, please.
what i really cant understand is how come ik has linked this swat opperation to east and west pakistan issue. i do agree with him in a few things but being against the millatry opperation is wrong. right now we all need to stand together to prove our strenghth as a nation.
i disagree with ik on the lal masjid issue too as i believe that the writ of the nation was really important what i dont back is that it was delayed for such a long time.
mr. ik claims that musharraf was a bad leader and that what he did was wrong but id like to ask ik what is that he is doing right now? instaed of being supportive he is being not only objective but also bringing in quaid e azam and allama iqbal. how can he talk about islam when he himself did not rather does not practice islam even today?? all he wants is public attention may it be by being pro taliban(in a way).
i am also in favour of sharia but has ik ever spoken of the sharia himself? how can he not condemn the modern society around him and demand the islamic laws? we are in real need of an islamic state that we promised the muslims. only if we change the open media and the modern dressing of the people today can we fight the problems we face right now.
how can ik complain on behalf of fata when he knows that fata is only a part of pakistan on the papers or the atlas. the people of fata call their area “ilaqa ghair” a heaven for the dacoits and now millitants. the place where all the stolen cars and killers or “wanted” people flee to. where pakistani government or police or the millatry has no say.
i think ik needs to grow up and see the acctual problem. will there be peace if the army comes back from swat and the adjoining areas? is he really that insane to believe that the poor taliban are being killed by their own brothers dressed in army uniform?
what about the attacks of the poor brothers on their evil muslim brothers dressed in the uniform? okay we leave the army or the rest of the forces what about the innocent civilians being killed by the suicide attackers are they not the brothers of the taliban? or is it that only we are their brothers?
if the answer to this question is that innocent pepole do die with the government officals then i am sorry to say that it too will happen to the poor people living in waziristan and swat areas.
how can ik of all the people complain about the sad sittuations of the people living in the camps when he himself as a citizen of this country knows the standing of pakistan in all ways and means? he knows that those people are getting the maximum from the government and also the people of this country,those people who believe that we all are one and we stand here to support them in all ways possible for us.
in the end i would like to tell ik and those who complain about the bad conditions in the camp and those who talk about the partition and quaid e azam to go back a few years not far but only 61 years 9 months and 19 days back when at the time of partition the muslims came to pakistan they had worse conditions to live in and not only that but they also faced most inhuman attitude by the hindus and sikhs while miggration but they still migrated from lavish homes and high class lives just to be in their country. are the swatis facing problems worse then the partiton?
@freemason
If Ik is confused as per your judgment, I think you are not only confused but wrong in understanding the whole issue. When we say there is foreign element involved that means it is not limited to only create a law and order situation but has even bigger ambitions to create a civil war situation in Pakistan so that our enemy have a plain field when he attacks Pakistan. Chances of civil war become eminent when we start killing each other on ethnic and regional bases. An army operation like we have started is a fuel to that beginning which will end like any civil war. You seem so confidant about this operation, give us one example of any army operation which though caused 3 million IDP people, yet brought a long lasting peace or saved a nation from braking up.
@sara11
Swatis or Pukhtoons didn’t migrate from India. They were there even before Pakistan came to existance, so your theory and logic does not apply on them in principle.
All the Guys – Imran Khan cant make any deal on the country with anyone, so please make some other consipiracy thoery.
IK was a leader and a leader that will prove and is proving. It also create very much doubts when India/U.S are very happy with these operations. You know what I want to say. It is an international agenda to create a civil war situation in Pakistan. And we r helping them.
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